Basket hilted swords

ulfberth · 7th October 2015, 10:22 AM

Here are the other pictures, If someone has more information on this kind of hilt it would be most welcome.
Total length 104
Blade width at the base 4 cm
No stamps or regiment numbers.

Thanks

Ulfberth

Cathey · 18th October 2015, 01:42 AM

hi Guys

I have gone through all of my baskets and have nothing with a base like this one. If someone out there has one similar, please post for comparison. Very nice sword though and extremely unusual hilt configuration overall.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

ulfberth · 19th October 2015, 08:30 AM

Thanks for your comment Catey,
I'm having concerns about the way the hilt is riveted on to the guard plate, and I could nor find an other basket hilt made this way.
For the moment this remains a mystery and I'm wondering if this is a military assembly or a later composite sword.
kind regards

Ulfberth

E.B. Erickson · 24th October 2015, 07:41 AM

When I saw Ulfberth's sword, it set off bells in my head - but where had I seen that before? Figured it out. Wood's book has one, and so does Mazansky.
Mazansky p.188 has a hilt just like the one in Ulfberth's photos. Differences: pommel is nicer on Ulfberth's, and the one in Mazansky has screws instead of rivets. Ulfbeth's also looks like the shield (Mazansky's terminology) has been modified.
I'd post a scan, but I don't have a scanner, so I'll leave that to someone else.

Mazansky notes a possible French connection (not the Gene Hackman version), with possible manufacture dates of late 17-early 1800s, but also notes that this remains to be proven.

I need to post the rest of my baskets in this thread.

--ElJay

ulfberth · 24th October 2015, 07:18 PM

Hi Eljay,

thank you for pointing this out, If someone could take a picture or a scan it would give an idea.
In the meanwhile I found a similar basket hilt in Museo delle Armi Antiche di San Marino .
This one has a blade with a blade with a double fuller but the pommel and the hilt are identical .

kind regards

Ulfberth

Cathey · 25th October 2015, 12:28 AM

Hi Guys

Rex took a photo of page 188 (see attached) and certainly looks extremely similar. I agree with the view that his one is probably of French manufacture perhaps for a Scottish exile hence the unusual hilt configuration.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

ulfberth · 25th October 2015, 09:09 AM

Hi Catey

Thanks for posting the picture of the Mazansky book, I think this is as close as it gets.
We have seen three almost identical hilts and in all three the guard fits on the base plate pierced and attached by either a riveted method or or secured by bolted nuts.
The one in the Italian museum does not have these bolts and seems riveted to.
I think we can conclude this is not a composite but the way this type of basket hilts were constructed.

Thanks all for you help!

Kind regards

Ulfberth

7th October 2015, 10:22 AM	#1
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Here are the other pictures, If someone has more information on this kind of hilt it would be most welcome. Total length 104 Blade width at the base 4 cm No stamps or regiment numbers. Thanks Ulfberth Attached Images

18th October 2015, 01:42 AM	#2
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Unusual base to Basket hilt hi Guys I have gone through all of my baskets and have nothing with a base like this one. If someone out there has one similar, please post for comparison. Very nice sword though and extremely unusual hilt configuration overall. Cheers Cathey and Rex

24th October 2015, 07:18 PM	#5
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Hi Eljay, thank you for pointing this out, If someone could take a picture or a scan it would give an idea. In the meanwhile I found a similar basket hilt in Museo delle Armi Antiche di San Marino . This one has a blade with a blade with a double fuller but the pommel and the hilt are identical . kind regards Ulfberth Attached Images

25th October 2015, 12:28 AM	#6
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Mazansky p.188 Hi Guys Rex took a photo of page 188 (see attached) and certainly looks extremely similar. I agree with the view that his one is probably of French manufacture perhaps for a Scottish exile hence the unusual hilt configuration. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

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19th October 2015, 08:30 AM	#3
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Thanks for your comment Catey, I'm having concerns about the way the hilt is riveted on to the guard plate, and I could nor find an other basket hilt made this way. For the moment this remains a mystery and I'm wondering if this is a military assembly or a later composite sword. kind regards Ulfberth

24th October 2015, 07:41 AM	#4
E.B. Erickson Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 61	When I saw Ulfberth's sword, it set off bells in my head - but where had I seen that before? Figured it out. Wood's book has one, and so does Mazansky. Mazansky p.188 has a hilt just like the one in Ulfberth's photos. Differences: pommel is nicer on Ulfberth's, and the one in Mazansky has screws instead of rivets. Ulfbeth's also looks like the shield (Mazansky's terminology) has been modified. I'd post a scan, but I don't have a scanner, so I'll leave that to someone else. Mazansky notes a possible French connection (not the Gene Hackman version), with possible manufacture dates of late 17-early 1800s, but also notes that this remains to be proven. I need to post the rest of my baskets in this thread. --ElJay

25th October 2015, 09:09 AM	#7
ulfberth Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 412	Hi Catey Thanks for posting the picture of the Mazansky book, I think this is as close as it gets. We have seen three almost identical hilts and in all three the guard fits on the base plate pierced and attached by either a riveted method or or secured by bolted nuts. The one in the Italian museum does not have these bolts and seems riveted to. I think we can conclude this is not a composite but the way this type of basket hilts were constructed. Thanks all for you help! Kind regards Ulfberth