Odd sword that sold at Dorotheum

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd September 2013, 05:05 PM

Salaams All Note to Forum

For an example of Cross IN Orb Please see http://musingsofafreifechter.tumblr.com/ at bottom of page ...

For an example of an octagonal pommel see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3707

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd September 2013, 05:56 PM

Ibrahiim I will see if I can get the images from the book on the Bosnian example. I think seeing the openwork on this example and the dragon head quillons will better illustrate the connection I am making.

Salaams Jim ~ Thank you very much Jim ... That would be great... The brain cells are taking a battering and are at overload. Ewart Oakeshott spent his entire life in this subject, thus, I have embarked on something of a roller coaster learning curve of epic proportions. Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

fernando · 23rd September 2013, 06:07 PM

Superb entry, Jasper ... as always

Iain · 23rd September 2013, 07:56 PM

Fantastic stuff Jim and Jasper.

I think that might just clinch it, Ventian and Balkan (Bosnian) combination piece.

Here's the page with the Bosnian piece courtesy of a friend and fellow forumite.

Fascinating material, this is the sort of puzzle and detective work that make this forum a real joy to be a party of.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th September 2013, 06:44 AM

Salaams all Note to Forum.. Never being one to ignore the obscure reference! I thought this was interesting and related to Dalmatian swords through traditional dance...

Moreska is pronounced 'Moreska'. It means 'Moorish'. The word is derived from the Spanish adjective 'Morisco' or the Italian 'Moresco'. It is a matter of conjecture whether the dance came to the Adriatic directly from Spain through roving Spanish sailors, or from Sicily or Italy when Dalmatia formed part of the Venetian Republic whether it was originally a Moorish dance or a Spanish one, inspired by the struggle of Spanish Christians against the Moors is also debatable though the latter seems the most likely. We do know for certain that it is one of the oldest traditional European dances still performed, and that records exist of it being danced in Lerida in 1156 in a form portraying a Christian and National victory over the Moors and their expulsion from Aragon.

From the 12th century and particularly in the 16th and 17th centuries, the dance spread to many Mediterranean countries: to Italy, Corsica, Sicily, Malta, France and, through Spanish trade, to Flanders, Germany and even to England. It was subject to frequent local variations, in regard to plot, protagonists and eventually also to form. In Corsica it was danced by eighty swordsmen on each side, armed with two swords apiece, who did battle for the town of Mariana to the music of a solo violin; in Elba the engagement was between Christians and Turks, in other places between Arabs and Turks; sometimes the damsel in distress was a white maiden of royal blood, sometimes a Turkish or Moorish one of equal innocence and beauty. In Ferrara a dragon was introduced who tried to devour the damsel and there were many later versions which degenerated from the original war-dance (intrinsically a useful sword practice and 'keep-fit' class for the warriors of small island or coastal garrisons for whom good swordsmanship and alertness meant their survival) into a form of folk drama, and eventually into the dance interludes of pastoral plays and Italian opera. In Germany the Moreska, though called Moriskentanze, became a mere collection of local folk dances and in England the Morris (l.e. Moorish) dancers threw away their swords and substituted long wooden sticks which they fought with and over which they hopped. In most of the Mediterranean the Moreska survived until the end of the 18th century, and in Italy and Dalmatia till the close of the 19th.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th September 2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Fantastic stuff Jim and Jasper.

I think that might just clinch it, Ventian and Balkan (Bosnian) combination piece.

Here's the page with the Bosnian piece courtesy of a friend and fellow forumite.

Fascinating material, this is the sort of puzzle and detective work that make this forum a real joy to be a party of.

Salaams Iain ~ Excellent picture of the sword ~ Perhaps the write up can be included as a separate picture as it is split in half ? I wonder if the roundels on #1 and the roundels here are of the same design ? Roundels I believe were used to imply the wheels of a chariot in earlier times in the region.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

23rd September 2013, 07:56 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Fantastic stuff Jim and Jasper. I think that might just clinch it, Ventian and Balkan (Bosnian) combination piece. Here's the page with the Bosnian piece courtesy of a friend and fellow forumite. Fascinating material, this is the sort of puzzle and detective work that make this forum a real joy to be a party of. Attached Images

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23rd September 2013, 05:05 PM	#1
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All Note to Forum For an example of Cross IN Orb Please see http://musingsofafreifechter.tumblr.com/ at bottom of page ... For an example of an octagonal pommel see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3707 Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 23rd September 2013 at 06:37 PM.

23rd September 2013, 05:56 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Ibrahiim I will see if I can get the images from the book on the Bosnian example. I think seeing the openwork on this example and the dragon head quillons will better illustrate the connection I am making. Salaams Jim ~ Thank you very much Jim ... That would be great... The brain cells are taking a battering and are at overload. Ewart Oakeshott spent his entire life in this subject, thus, I have embarked on something of a roller coaster learning curve of epic proportions. Thanks for your help. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

23rd September 2013, 06:07 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Superb entry, Jasper ... as always

24th September 2013, 06:44 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams all Note to Forum.. Never being one to ignore the obscure reference! I thought this was interesting and related to Dalmatian swords through traditional dance... Moreska is pronounced 'Moreska'. It means 'Moorish'. The word is derived from the Spanish adjective 'Morisco' or the Italian 'Moresco'. It is a matter of conjecture whether the dance came to the Adriatic directly from Spain through roving Spanish sailors, or from Sicily or Italy when Dalmatia formed part of the Venetian Republic whether it was originally a Moorish dance or a Spanish one, inspired by the struggle of Spanish Christians against the Moors is also debatable though the latter seems the most likely. We do know for certain that it is one of the oldest traditional European dances still performed, and that records exist of it being danced in Lerida in 1156 in a form portraying a Christian and National victory over the Moors and their expulsion from Aragon. From the 12th century and particularly in the 16th and 17th centuries, the dance spread to many Mediterranean countries: to Italy, Corsica, Sicily, Malta, France and, through Spanish trade, to Flanders, Germany and even to England. It was subject to frequent local variations, in regard to plot, protagonists and eventually also to form. In Corsica it was danced by eighty swordsmen on each side, armed with two swords apiece, who did battle for the town of Mariana to the music of a solo violin; in Elba the engagement was between Christians and Turks, in other places between Arabs and Turks; sometimes the damsel in distress was a white maiden of royal blood, sometimes a Turkish or Moorish one of equal innocence and beauty. In Ferrara a dragon was introduced who tried to devour the damsel and there were many later versions which degenerated from the original war-dance (intrinsically a useful sword practice and 'keep-fit' class for the warriors of small island or coastal garrisons for whom good swordsmanship and alertness meant their survival) into a form of folk drama, and eventually into the dance interludes of pastoral plays and Italian opera. In Germany the Moreska, though called Moriskentanze, became a mere collection of local folk dances and in England the Morris (l.e. Moorish) dancers threw away their swords and substituted long wooden sticks which they fought with and over which they hopped. In most of the Mediterranean the Moreska survived until the end of the 18th century, and in Italy and Dalmatia till the close of the 19th. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.