gorgrian Khevsur "shashka"

Jim McDougall · 2nd July 2021, 11:07 PM

I have to ask, what is meant by push sword Kubur, does this mean 'thrust'?
The nomadic tribes of the Steppes used the 'draw cut' in their sabers of course, but the Ottomans (and I believe Persians) had straight thrusting swords (called mec) used for the thrust. These same type swords were heavy thrust swords which were worn under the saddle with narrow blades called estoc (colloquially tuck).

The Tatars had sabers often known as 'ordynka' which has a deeply canted pommel in this manner in many cases. Many of these had narrow needle points, which I always thought were for thrusting through mail. However I think slashing cuts were favored with these? The rest were typical saber blades.

I do not recall the thrust swords called 'mec' having 'canted' (angled) hilts but would welcome knowing of that character in examples.

With the 'pata' these were primarily transverse grip large daggers (katars) from South India which evolved into the well known 'pata' sword. While the later evolved 'katar' is seen with 'armor piercing' (bolstered point)blade, the katar and the pata, were regarded as 'slashing weapons'.

In references it seems that the Mahrattas , who it seems were the early users of the pata, were against the thrust, and used the pata in slashing cuts. In more modern use of the pata ceremonially they use two in a kind of windmill fashion in demonstrations.
In Indian artwork, mounted riders, Mughal and Rajput are seen, but it does not seem these were used in the thrust, particularly as Rajputs typically fought dismounted.

The basket guard of the pata did provide good hand protection, and acted as a combined vambrace and gauntlet, but I think the use was in slashing cuts.

2nd July 2021, 11:07 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,194	I have to ask, what is meant by push sword Kubur, does this mean 'thrust'? The nomadic tribes of the Steppes used the 'draw cut' in their sabers of course, but the Ottomans (and I believe Persians) had straight thrusting swords (called mec) used for the thrust. These same type swords were heavy thrust swords which were worn under the saddle with narrow blades called estoc (colloquially tuck). The Tatars had sabers often known as 'ordynka' which has a deeply canted pommel in this manner in many cases. Many of these had narrow needle points, which I always thought were for thrusting through mail. However I think slashing cuts were favored with these? The rest were typical saber blades. I do not recall the thrust swords called 'mec' having 'canted' (angled) hilts but would welcome knowing of that character in examples. With the 'pata' these were primarily transverse grip large daggers (katars) from South India which evolved into the well known 'pata' sword. While the later evolved 'katar' is seen with 'armor piercing' (bolstered point)blade, the katar and the pata, were regarded as 'slashing weapons'. In references it seems that the Mahrattas , who it seems were the early users of the pata, were against the thrust, and used the pata in slashing cuts. In more modern use of the pata ceremonially they use two in a kind of windmill fashion in demonstrations. In Indian artwork, mounted riders, Mughal and Rajput are seen, but it does not seem these were used in the thrust, particularly as Rajputs typically fought dismounted. The basket guard of the pata did provide good hand protection, and acted as a combined vambrace and gauntlet, but I think the use was in slashing cuts.