Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ian · 14th July 2014, 01:24 PM

Gavin:

Part of the purpose in putting together the Dha Index/Archive was to give people a sense of styles that developed over a period of time. That site indicates that, in a traditional sense, the use of metal bands was essentially a Burman and Shan trait. Extensive covering of scabbards with silver on distinguished pieces was also found in central Thailand following the conquest of Laos and the bringing of Lao craftsmen to the capital region. These imported Lao produced the long handled daab of that period.

That's the basic history as best we have been able to define it.

Traditionally, there is little or no evidence to suggest that Kachin sword dha had extensive use of metal bands. The occasional brass band to support the toe of the scabbard, but not much else. And I would say that generalization held until at least the mid-20th C. Since then, and especially the last 20 years, there has been diffusion of styles to some degree throughout the SE Asia region. Tourism and greater mobility have no doubt contributed. However, I have yet to see extensive banding of Kachin dha with metal strips. If you have evidence of this, please post the pictures here so we can update our information. If possible, please provide documented pieces that are clearly not a marriage of a sword from here and a scabbard from there. Bazaar/store shots are especially helpful in this regard.

As far as the Shan and Lanna designations, these are used somewhat interchangeably. As you know, the Shan (Tai) are found in Burma, northern Thailand and southern Yunnan. For the styles of Shan daab traditionally found in northern Thailand, the term Shan/Lanna has been used by some. This helps distinguish from the more recent daab produced in that region (and elsewhere) that appear so commonly on the market today.

There is an old thread devoted to Contemporary Thai Swords (under Classic Threads) that showed several of these more recent varieties, and can be found here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001291.html

Returning to the item under discussion, if we look at the bands on the scabbard, the two end ones show some scalloping to the inner margins. IMO this is fairly typical of Shan work. Sometimes these are rings or more elaborate scroll work, but the appearance is consistent with other Shan pieces I have seen from northern Thailand. I don't think it is necessary to invoke a Kachin origin when there is a simpler and more likely explanation.

As for the rest of this piece, I still see a Malay influence to the shape of the horn hilt. The blade still strikes me as a cut down daab that has been converted to a long knife/short sword.

Seems we will have to respectfully disagree on this one.

Regards,

Ian.

14th July 2014, 01:24 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,031	Gavin: Part of the purpose in putting together the Dha Index/Archive was to give people a sense of styles that developed over a period of time. That site indicates that, in a traditional sense, the use of metal bands was essentially a Burman and Shan trait. Extensive covering of scabbards with silver on distinguished pieces was also found in central Thailand following the conquest of Laos and the bringing of Lao craftsmen to the capital region. These imported Lao produced the long handled daab of that period. That's the basic history as best we have been able to define it. Traditionally, there is little or no evidence to suggest that Kachin sword dha had extensive use of metal bands. The occasional brass band to support the toe of the scabbard, but not much else. And I would say that generalization held until at least the mid-20th C. Since then, and especially the last 20 years, there has been diffusion of styles to some degree throughout the SE Asia region. Tourism and greater mobility have no doubt contributed. However, I have yet to see extensive banding of Kachin dha with metal strips. If you have evidence of this, please post the pictures here so we can update our information. If possible, please provide documented pieces that are clearly not a marriage of a sword from here and a scabbard from there. Bazaar/store shots are especially helpful in this regard. As far as the Shan and Lanna designations, these are used somewhat interchangeably. As you know, the Shan (Tai) are found in Burma, northern Thailand and southern Yunnan. For the styles of Shan daab traditionally found in northern Thailand, the term Shan/Lanna has been used by some. This helps distinguish from the more recent daab produced in that region (and elsewhere) that appear so commonly on the market today. There is an old thread devoted to Contemporary Thai Swords (under Classic Threads) that showed several of these more recent varieties, and can be found here: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001291.html Returning to the item under discussion, if we look at the bands on the scabbard, the two end ones show some scalloping to the inner margins. IMO this is fairly typical of Shan work. Sometimes these are rings or more elaborate scroll work, but the appearance is consistent with other Shan pieces I have seen from northern Thailand. I don't think it is necessary to invoke a Kachin origin when there is a simpler and more likely explanation. As for the rest of this piece, I still see a Malay influence to the shape of the horn hilt. The blade still strikes me as a cut down daab that has been converted to a long knife/short sword. Seems we will have to respectfully disagree on this one. Regards, Ian. Last edited by Ian; 14th July 2014 at 06:14 PM.