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Old 21st November 2008, 03:33 PM   #20
Jim McDougall
Research Consultant
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 6,826

Originally Posted by aiontay
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, Jim, I'm Kiowa and Chickasaw. The Kiowas certainly covered some distances back in the old days; Zone-tay, the original Aiontay's wife who we descend from, was born on the headwaters of the Arkansas on a return trip from visiting the Crows. Of course, the Spanish also did a bit of travelling themselves.

I should also point out that the Indians, or at least the Kiowas, didn't throw their lances. Also, while tomahawks were popular, they were more prestige items rather than actual weapons. My grandmother talked about the Kiowas using war clubs, but not tomahawks. The Kiowa ledger art I've seen shows spears and sabers used in combat, but no tomahawks.

As for strange creatures, Mooney's collection of Kiowa shield designs shows one shield depicting an elephant! I can't read the written description since the scanned image doesn't show the writing very well, but it is clearly an elephant.

I need to go back and comment on some of the threads regarding Kachin swords (nhtu) as well since I've spent time among the Kachins and actually have one that was given to me by a Kachin friend.

Absolutely fantastic input Aiontay! Thank you for the notes on the lances and tomahawks, and other comments which are excellent in helping us learn more on the American Indian weapons. The note on the shield with the elephant is pretty stunning ! I think it would really be interesting to review some of these surprisingly incongruent elements found on weaponry such as this, and to discuss how these might have arrived in completely unexpected cultures.
Personally I believe that the complexity of trade networking far exceeded commonly held modern comprehension and it seems research and archaeological discoveries continue to reveal evidence suggesting these astounding connections.
In many cases, material culture that may have changed hands at any number of points from its origin to its final location, would be not unsurprisingly nor unexpectedly strange to be found there.

I think Gonzalos earlier note on the presence of monkeys and parrots being found farther north in Mexico is well placed also, as geographic boundaries have little to do with nature, but it is entirely fascinating that the various raiding parties moved so deeply south regardless of what exact region they reached.

I really look forward to your posting on the items on earlier threads, and I'd like very much to hear more on Native American weapons, which is a topic we need to have more coverage on.

Thanks again, and its good to have you posting with us!

All the best,
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