Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Federico · 23rd January 2005, 06:00 AM

Elevation to Datu class would be through marriage, while one can rise to high status otherwise, Datu class is royalty class. Kinda the same idea, no matter how rich Trump gets, he is still not a royal unless he marries into it. Now it has happened that people of common origins have improved their blood lines through marriage, but to do this, one needs quite substantial bits of money. Now, I did not mention the potential for stealing items, because I would like to hope things arent this way in this situation, but I am afraid it is far too common. Particularly in the santo trade, an amazing amount of churches have been robbed to provide collectors markets in Manila. However, I would not like to cast such extreme allegations without specific proof.

As for pride in the past heritage going down, or trading for a new weapon, large sum of money, etc... It happens, all the time. However, again we are looking at what would be a very high class weapon. Ivory, and metal hilted pieces are not exactly commonplace. The amount of those in the Datu class who joined the MNLF, MILF, and other rebel groups has been very low. PI is a poor country, but not everyone in PI is so poor that they are willing to sell their lives at a whim. I am not trying to be overly harsh here, but realistically the number of truly legitimate high end pieces left in the PI after the glut of the Spanish American war is very very low. The high end pieces left, were those in the possessions of people who were not exactly low end ranking royalty, and who are very much concerned with preserving their cultural history. On a numbers level, the amount of people in the class to make such a change, remain very low. We are talking major calamities and great change of fortune here for things to change around. Also considering the age of the re-fit, it is very likely that the person who sold it, was alive when the refit was done, limiting the idea of the grandkid an the grandpas chest. Now on the flip side, the numbers of old commoner blades being re-habbed and then sold as royal weaponry, are quite high and have been a well documented process for many many years. There are fakes in every other sword market, many with high degrees of sophistication. So just because PI is a poor country, we are supposed to buy the idea that fakery wont occur? Are we supposed to buy, that only the guadiest tourist items are the only items being passed off as real? While here in the US because of the rampant nature of stripping dead bodies during the Phil-Am war, and the lower value the general populace has for these weapons, people of relatively humble backgrounds, such as I can afford to have a few pieces. However, in PI it is names like Zobel, Araneta, Alaya,etc... that collect these pieces. The prices that have been paid for plainer pieces in Manila markets for such collectors, has been extremely high. Now, are we to assume that there would not be someone out there who wouldnt want to put a little extra effort to tap into a few of these dollars beyond bringing out the guadiest of tourist kris of the type that one finds in shoemart? Is PI full of saints?

OK, I am not trying to say one cant collect what one wants, and that only 100% original is great. My own collection is all what many would consider junky pieces, that have been re-habbed numerous times. I can only think of a few pieces that are somewhat complete, and I dont think I have anything that is 100% original. I am trying to say exercise some caution this stuff happens, and sometimes when it sounds too good to be true, well... As before I am interested in hearing the story behind the sword. As I mentioned before, I am more inclined to be less paranoid if the dealer isnt trying to pass it off as 100% original, when we can all see it is not. But given the state of things, I wonder, and hence I express my curiosity about the origins and stories of this sword, and throw out the caution to those who have not experienced the fact that fakes are occuring in such a nature, that hey its nice, well done, but it is not old or probably royal. For me the greatest tragedy, is that a number of swords that do get re-habbed like this were suitable working swords, but lacked the sex-appeal of a fancy piece.

23rd January 2005, 06:00 AM	#23
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Elevation to Datu class would be through marriage, while one can rise to high status otherwise, Datu class is royalty class. Kinda the same idea, no matter how rich Trump gets, he is still not a royal unless he marries into it. Now it has happened that people of common origins have improved their blood lines through marriage, but to do this, one needs quite substantial bits of money. Now, I did not mention the potential for stealing items, because I would like to hope things arent this way in this situation, but I am afraid it is far too common. Particularly in the santo trade, an amazing amount of churches have been robbed to provide collectors markets in Manila. However, I would not like to cast such extreme allegations without specific proof. As for pride in the past heritage going down, or trading for a new weapon, large sum of money, etc... It happens, all the time. However, again we are looking at what would be a very high class weapon. Ivory, and metal hilted pieces are not exactly commonplace. The amount of those in the Datu class who joined the MNLF, MILF, and other rebel groups has been very low. PI is a poor country, but not everyone in PI is so poor that they are willing to sell their lives at a whim. I am not trying to be overly harsh here, but realistically the number of truly legitimate high end pieces left in the PI after the glut of the Spanish American war is very very low. The high end pieces left, were those in the possessions of people who were not exactly low end ranking royalty, and who are very much concerned with preserving their cultural history. On a numbers level, the amount of people in the class to make such a change, remain very low. We are talking major calamities and great change of fortune here for things to change around. Also considering the age of the re-fit, it is very likely that the person who sold it, was alive when the refit was done, limiting the idea of the grandkid an the grandpas chest. Now on the flip side, the numbers of old commoner blades being re-habbed and then sold as royal weaponry, are quite high and have been a well documented process for many many years. There are fakes in every other sword market, many with high degrees of sophistication. So just because PI is a poor country, we are supposed to buy the idea that fakery wont occur? Are we supposed to buy, that only the guadiest tourist items are the only items being passed off as real? While here in the US because of the rampant nature of stripping dead bodies during the Phil-Am war, and the lower value the general populace has for these weapons, people of relatively humble backgrounds, such as I can afford to have a few pieces. However, in PI it is names like Zobel, Araneta, Alaya,etc... that collect these pieces. The prices that have been paid for plainer pieces in Manila markets for such collectors, has been extremely high. Now, are we to assume that there would not be someone out there who wouldnt want to put a little extra effort to tap into a few of these dollars beyond bringing out the guadiest of tourist kris of the type that one finds in shoemart? Is PI full of saints? OK, I am not trying to say one cant collect what one wants, and that only 100% original is great. My own collection is all what many would consider junky pieces, that have been re-habbed numerous times. I can only think of a few pieces that are somewhat complete, and I dont think I have anything that is 100% original. I am trying to say exercise some caution this stuff happens, and sometimes when it sounds too good to be true, well... As before I am interested in hearing the story behind the sword. As I mentioned before, I am more inclined to be less paranoid if the dealer isnt trying to pass it off as 100% original, when we can all see it is not. But given the state of things, I wonder, and hence I express my curiosity about the origins and stories of this sword, and throw out the caution to those who have not experienced the fact that fakes are occuring in such a nature, that hey its nice, well done, but it is not old or probably royal. For me the greatest tragedy, is that a number of swords that do get re-habbed like this were suitable working swords, but lacked the sex-appeal of a fancy piece.