Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 12th April 2016, 12:20 AM

Thank you for your response Gustav.

I have no doubt that what you wrote in respect of keris length in Jawa having important symbolism is something that because of its extremely reliable source, you believe absolutely.

I also understand very well that some people who supply us with information are reluctant to permit us to pass that information to third parties, thus your inability to reveal the source of your knowledge is well understood.

However, before I comment further on this matter, I would request your indulgence in a small clarification.

Your exact words were:-

"Alan, I can assure you, that in the land of Java the symbolism of length of Keris was an important factor, at least since the beginning of 19. cent."

And I understood these words to be in response to my own comment, which was:-

"Hierarchical position through the keris is shown in much more subtle ways in Jawa than by the rather obvious symbolism of size."

Thus, I understood your comment to mean the following:-

since the year 1800, and for some time thereafter, in the geographic location that is regarded by the Javanese people as the Land of Jawa, as distinct from the Island of Jawa, the length of a keris blade could be symbolically understood as indicating the hierarchical position in either the society at large, or possibly only within the confines of the courts, as indicative of the hierarchical position of the wearer.

Specifically, that a longer keris blade co-related to a higher hierarchical position within the society, or a segment of the society.

So Gustav, can you confirm that my understanding of your comment is correct?

If my understanding is not correct, would you be so kind as to amend this understanding?

Thank you so much.

12th April 2016, 12:20 AM	#28
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Thank you for your response Gustav. I have no doubt that what you wrote in respect of keris length in Jawa having important symbolism is something that because of its extremely reliable source, you believe absolutely. I also understand very well that some people who supply us with information are reluctant to permit us to pass that information to third parties, thus your inability to reveal the source of your knowledge is well understood. However, before I comment further on this matter, I would request your indulgence in a small clarification. Your exact words were:- "Alan, I can assure you, that in the land of Java the symbolism of length of Keris was an important factor, at least since the beginning of 19. cent." And I understood these words to be in response to my own comment, which was:- "Hierarchical position through the keris is shown in much more subtle ways in Jawa than by the rather obvious symbolism of size." Thus, I understood your comment to mean the following:- since the year 1800, and for some time thereafter, in the geographic location that is regarded by the Javanese people as the Land of Jawa, as distinct from the Island of Jawa, the length of a keris blade could be symbolically understood as indicating the hierarchical position in either the society at large, or possibly only within the confines of the courts, as indicative of the hierarchical position of the wearer. Specifically, that a longer keris blade co-related to a higher hierarchical position within the society, or a segment of the society. So Gustav, can you confirm that my understanding of your comment is correct? If my understanding is not correct, would you be so kind as to amend this understanding? Thank you so much.