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Old 20th February 2013, 03:46 PM   #14
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
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Originally Posted by Iain
Hi Ibrahiim,

I'll just again say I think the combat or non combat question is irrelevant at the moment and is causing more confusion and questions than it needs to. See below...

Agree completely about the influence of muskets and other firearms however:

I think perhaps you are misunderstanding some of my previous points. I am not talking about these modern, flexible blades in a combat sense.

I am talking about where the form (not the flexibility aspect) was drawn from.

Again, see above I'm not talking about the modern flexible blades.

Because again, I'm not talking about blades with the flexibility aspect you are referencing. I'm discussing the common European trade blades - not some European trade blade with massive flex. So yes, in that sense you are talking about something that doesn't exist.

Because as you've said many times, in a modern context fighting blades aren't desirable. I've shown in previous threads sayfs with stiff blades and European marks. I can go and dig them out again I guess. Heck, I've seen fullered European blades on Omani battle sword hilts as well.

I think your last sentence is probably correct. The dancing sayf is simply a progression from a style derived from mating European trade blades to local hilts. Which explains the trade blade inspired shape and use of fullers on dance blades.

I think you have perhaps misinterpreted a few of my points because you are focusing on the flex aspect.
  • I'm not talking about some trade blade with the flex of the dancing blades. I'm only talking about where the form/style of the flexible and locally made blades was taken from.
  • That, from the evidence you've provided, trade blades proper are unlikely to be found in Omani hilts in the present day because they are not desirable - this doesn't mean this was always the case.
  • That there's an obvious and very close link to other long hilted and trade blade using forms in neighboring areas.



Salaams Iain ~ So the question as far as you are concerned is; What influence if any did European Trade Blades have on the Omani Sayf?

My opinion is that the Omani Sayf may have no root at all in the European Trade blade system/style except in the odd European(copied) inscription on a few blades. My attention is focussed on the Yemeni derivative at Swedegreens thread which in turn copied style from Ottoman through Mamluke to Abassiid design. It is a serious point for research in Muscat Museum where I hope to report from soon. I shall certainly be on the lookout for any early Omani Sayfs to consider the Trade blade question.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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