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-   -   Two new talibons? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22271)

Rafngard 11th January 2017 09:12 PM

Two new talibons?
 
12 Attachment(s)
Hello All,

I recently aquired these two talibons and wanted to share them. I'll mostly let the pictures speak for themselves, but in particular I had one question about them: how old are they likely to be?

I tend to group talibons into two groups:

1) Late 19th/early 20th century ones, with the tripartite butt, thumb rest and often the eye on the scabbard, perhaps properly called "Garabs". These are a lot scarcer and usually significantly out of my price range.
Someday I will have one of these, but that day is not today.

2) WWII and latter. Often smaller, perhaps made "for those who travel." These are quite common, and well within my price range (maybe too much so, as the family photo will attest), and with very divergent forms.

If my thinking is incorrect in any of this please say so.

Regardless, these two here don't seem to neatly fall into either of these categories, and so they confuse me. Both match the overall profile of the first group better, but not quite. Neither has a thumb or an eye (though the bigger one does have a suspicious hole on the back of the scabbard).

I suspect the bigger one might be older, but I don't have anything solid to back that up.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Leif

Rafngard 11th January 2017 09:16 PM

And a family photo
 
2 Attachment(s)
Because I'm a nerd.

Ian 11th January 2017 10:44 PM

Hi Leif:

I like these neat little knives too. For several years I accumulated them because they varied so much and they were well made. The inscriptions often found on the scabbards are interesting too.

Your latest two examples belong firmly in your second group, even though the hilts are a "throw back" to an earlier style. The looping around of the lower part of the hilt to protect the fingers is not traditional, and dates from the mid-1940s as far as I know. I would put both of them as mid-20th C. in manufacture.

Ian.

Rafngard 12th January 2017 02:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Your latest two examples belong firmly in your second group, even though the hilts are a "throw back" to an earlier style. The looping around of the lower part of the hilt to protect the fingers is not traditional, and dates from the mid-1940s as far as I know. I would put both of them as mid-20th C. in manufacture.


Ian,

As always you are a font of knowledge.
I hadn't thought about the "knuckle guard."

Thanks very much.
Leif

kai 12th January 2017 10:56 AM

Hello Leif,

I'm with Ian on your 2 acquisitions. From the pics, I might even argue that the lower blade is of better quality. I'd recommend to etch all these blades: While some might be indeed from monosteel, some will probably be laminated and allow a glimpse on the blacksmith's work.

BTW, allowing for plenty of overlap, I'd be tempted to suggest 3 groupings:

19th century (and possibly earlier):
These truly antique pieces really command top prices these days. I still have a status piece waiting for me in the US and haven't seen a bargain in a long while. However, if you look for pieces that are not easy to restore (shattered or missing scabbards, considerably damaged hilts, etc.), you still may be able to grab an affordable oldie!

20th century (pre-WW2):
Mostly usage of quality materials; variable workmanship (quick decline of traditional designs though). These are still undervalued IMHO and with patience & luck you can make good scores, especially in the US. It also stands to reason that some antique "villagers" may hide in this category (i. e. plain user pieces for common folks), some with possibly with replaced fittings...

Modern (WW2 and later):
Very variable workmanship and materials; partly use of modern materials (aluminium, plastic); new designs developing.

I know it's tough to let things pass on ePray. However, I'd suggest to build up funds by letting some modern examples pass and try to wait for pieces from the second category. There may be some gems, especially among the damaged/incomplete ones; and it would be good to rescue them from the dumpster and save them for posterity!

Regards,
Kai

Sajen 12th January 2017 06:52 PM

Hello Leif,

I think as well that you can find three or four groups of this blades.

The first one are the "garabs", the high end pieces with very good blades, you can find here many pictured by searching, here is my decent one:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

Second group would be the user, there are fighters and also working talibons, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon and here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

At third group are the WWII ones, sometimes very fancy, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

Your family exists from working pieces of the second group and the most from the third group. Feel the handles, are they worked for use or they are only fancy? Look for the patination. The from me shown examples have been all affordable. I think that Ian accumulated them to a time when they still have been very cheap.
Here is another very interesting thread you will enjoy: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001242.html

Regards,
Detlef

Ian 12th January 2017 08:53 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
... I think that Ian accumulated them to a time when they still have been very cheap. ...

Regards,
Detlef
Quite so, Detlef. I bought many of mine more than 20 years ago when they were mostly around $10-15. I used to give them to friends as inexpensive gifts. However, these modern ones are not really used as weapons (although they could be) and many seem to have been made for the tourist and as keepsakes for the local population.

I like dogs and had a fondness for dog-headed talibon, and still have a couple left -- see attached pictures.

Ian.

Rafngard 14th January 2017 07:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
From the pics, I might even argue that the lower blade is of better quality. I'd recommend to etch all these blades: While some might be indeed from monosteel, some will probably be laminated and allow a glimpse on the blacksmith's work.


You may be right about the lower blade. That one in particular seems well balanced and just wants to move when in the hand. The bigger one is remarkably heavy and not quite as well balanced.

I'll have to try etching some of them. I'm not terribly good at it yet, and haven't had great results with the blades I've tried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
BTW, allowing for plenty of overlap, I'd be tempted to suggest 3 groupings:
...

20th century (pre-WW2):
Mostly usage of quality materials; variable workmanship (quick decline of traditional designs though). These are still undervalued IMHO and with patience & luck you can make good scores, especially in the US. It also stands to reason that some antique "villagers" may hide in this category (i. e. plain user pieces for common folks), some with possibly with replaced fittings...


Would these ones tend to have the traditional shape, but without the thumb rest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
I know it's tough to let things pass on ePray. However, I'd suggest to build up funds by letting some modern examples pass and try to wait for pieces from the second category. There may be some gems, especially among the damaged/incomplete ones; and it would be good to rescue them from the dumpster and save them for posterity!


I think you probably have the right idea here. I'll try to follow your suggestion. I also think I need to work on developing my restoration skills.

Thanks you very much for your feedback,
Leif

Rafngard 14th January 2017 07:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
The first one are the "garabs", the high end pieces with very good blades, you can find here many pictured by searching, here is my decent one:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

Second group would be the user, there are fighters and also working talibons, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon and here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon

At third group are the WWII ones, sometimes very fancy, see here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=talibon


Thank you very much for sharing your examples. Great pieces! I love the eye on your Garab.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Your family exists from working pieces of the second group and the most from the third group. Feel the handles, are they worked for use or they are only fancy? Look for the patination.


Do you think these two might be part of the second group? They were previously posted here, along with my own dog-headed Talibon:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20262

As always, thank you for your comments.

Thanks,
Leif

Rafngard 14th January 2017 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
I bought many of mine more than 20 years ago when they were mostly around $10-15.


In part because I've been lucky, and in part because I'm a cheapskate, most of mine have either been in this range or fairly close. In fact no single ethnographic weapon that I owe has cost me more than $200. I think this is part of why my significant other tolerates it. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
I like dogs and had a fondness for dog-headed talibon, and still have a couple left -- see attached pictures.


I can't help but smile looking at these. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks,
Leif

Sajen 14th January 2017 09:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafngard
Do you think these two might be part of the second group? They were previously posted here, along with my own dog-headed Talibon:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20262


Sorry, I can't give an opinion by the given pictures. But the 4., 8., 9. and 11. piece from the left on your family pictures seems to be good canditates to be counted to this group.

Best regards,
Detlef

Rafngard 15th January 2017 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=Sajen]
But the 4., 8., 9. and 11. piece from the left on your family pictures seems to be good canditates to be counted to this group.
/QUOTE]

Perfect 9 & 11 were the ones I was thinking about.

Thanks,
Leif


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