Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   yataghan translation (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14737)

dandi 17th December 2011 05:56 PM

yataghan translation
 
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Hi everyone,
I am totally new in this forum,but I hope I may learn a lot from you.
My name is Daniel and I live in Bulgaria.I am interested in Balkan
arms-knives and yataghans.
For my short stay here in the forum I understood that Zifir may help me to
translate the inscription on my yataghan.
Thank you very much in advance!
My best rigarts to you all in this forum!
Here are the photos.

Dom 18th December 2011 01:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandi
For my short stay here in the forum I understood that Zifir may help me to
translate the inscription on my yataghan.
Hi "dandi"
welcome here :D
thanks for your presentation, but if you read the post concerning the translation
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11201
you will noticed that the picture for the whole weapon is requested, and,
according with "zefir" availability, you should have an answer
as far as, the mentions are indeed, in Turkish ottoman writing :p

+

Dom

dandi 18th December 2011 08:48 AM

Dear Dom,
First of all I would like to thank you for your reply and the attention you paid to me!
I think that the inscription was written in Turkish, that is why I directed my question and request for translation to Zifir. But this does not minimize my respect to all other colleagues in the forum and personally to you, you thorough knowledge in Arabian language.
Will be very thankful for the translation of the inscription!!
Looking forward to receiving your reply! :)

TVV 18th December 2011 07:18 PM

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Gentlemen,
Dandi is new and may not understand the rules quite yet. To help him out, I am attaching a picture of the entire yataghan before it was acquired by its current owner.
Regards,
Teodor

Dom 19th December 2011 02:10 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Gentlemen,
Dandi is new and may not understand the rules quite yet. To help him out, I am attaching a picture of the entire yataghan before it was acquired by its current owner.
Regards,
Teodor
Hi Teodor and Dandi,
I understand the situation :D
myself, some years ago, I got some difficulties when I came here for the fist time ... I didn't forgot it :p
but, a rule has been decided, if we don't apply it ?? ... :shrug: why to put a rule, specially not too much restrictive

anyway for you, to be patient waiting for "Zifir" assistance,
from the two pictures, my translator, gave me at least one translation,
the other it's in Turkish language, with some Arabic words,
but too few to be intelligible :(

AGHA MOHAMED SAHEB either OWNER MOHAMED AGHA

"AGHA" been a military rank in Ottoman Janissary troops

again, Dandi, you are very welcome here :D

+

Dom

TVV 19th December 2011 04:06 PM

Thank you Dom!
Teodor

Zifir 19th December 2011 06:56 PM

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Hi,
I did not translate Maaşallah on the picture, because I ran out of space. Probably it does not need translation for many but anyway; "Maaşallah" literally means "what wonders Allah has willed" and is used to avert evil eye.

Best,
Zifir

TVV 20th December 2011 05:48 AM

A somewhat unusual and a very poetic inscription, thank you Zifir! Could its meaning be interpreted as a janissary defiance to the Sultan towards the end of the corps, during Mahmud II's reign? Or is the emaning entirely different?
Teodor

Zifir 20th December 2011 04:44 PM

Hi Teodor,
I came across this inscription a few times, for the examples you can look at these threads:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...light=g%F6n%FCl

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...light=g%F6n%FCl


Interesting idea about how to interpret the inscription, I never thought it in that way. How did the owners choose a certain inscription over others, or did they really choose which inscriptions to put on their yatağans, I really don't know. Also the title Ağa (or Agha) is a tricky one, this title was used by all the military classes. The owner could be a janissary as Dom pointed out, he could be also a member of artillery corps, naval soldier, a member of ruling elite etc etc. no way of telling with this little piece of information.

dandi 20th December 2011 06:59 PM

Hi all,
Thank you very much for the attention you have paid to me!
I believe you are great men with great hearts! That is why I will do my best in future to show you articles that will be interesting for you.
I would like to thank personally to Dom as he was the man who has first met me here in the forum.I will remember him forever!
To Zifir I could say a great Thank you! too! I am a craftsman and I often go to Istanbul. Who knows HE /God may give us the chance to meet one day! :)
And I am waiting for Teo to meet in person and treat him for his help!

Some words about the inscription in my opinion it comes from the Koran I guess or it is just a religious text which says that heart which is righteous, does not hold a Muslim in contempt. This is Islamic value.
Regards,
Dandi

TVV 26th March 2012 09:26 PM

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At the request of a Bulgarian friend, I am attaching a yataghan inscription for translation. To comply with the unofficial rules, I am also attaching a picture of the entire blade in the state, in which it was found, prior to cleaning.

All responses appreciated, thank you,
Teodor

David R 28th March 2012 12:46 PM

Hi TVV thanks for posting these pics.
Damaged, incomplete, and stripped weapons are often more informative than perfect examples. Letting us see how a weapon was constructed, details often hidden in a perfect piece.
Before and after conservation, repair and reconstruction pictures are not only informative, but allow us to appreciate the skill of whoever does the work.

Zifir 28th March 2012 05:14 PM

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Hi Teodor,
My rough translations as usual.
Best,

TVV 28th March 2012 06:48 PM

Zifir,

Thank you very much for the quick translation! We are indeed lucky to have you on this forum, and hopefully translating trivial yataghan inscriptions is not getting boring for you.

David,

Good points, thank you for the response.

Teodor

Zifir 29th March 2012 06:30 PM

Toedor,
You are welcome. These translations create an opportunity to see pictures of different yatağans which would otherwise be impossible to see for me, so it's not boring, on the contrary...So, keep them coming :D

Best,

Zifir

stelio 5th April 2012 07:19 PM

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Hello Zifir may help me to
translate the inscription on my yataghan?
thank you.

Zifir 8th April 2012 07:56 PM

Hi Stelio,
the script on the blade is unreadable, at least for me. Am I correct to read "177_" with arabic numbers at the end? or maybe I am hallucinating from looking at it too much :D. The blade maker's seal is also difficult to read, but I think it is "amel-i Muhammed /work of Muhammed."
Zifir

stelio 9th April 2012 07:30 AM

Thank you very much zifir. The date in Arab calendar is 1166. They try to make most clear images on both sides of the blade

dandi 14th April 2012 03:14 PM

yataghan inscription translation
 
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Hi, everyone,
Please, help me translating the inscription of that yataghan.
Hope Zifir and Dom will help me! :)
Reagards,
Dandi

Dom 15th April 2012 05:28 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandi
Hi, everyone,
Please, help me translating the inscription of that yataghan.
Hope Zifir and Dom will help me! :)
Reagards,
Dandi
Hi Dandi
translation partially done :shrug:

AMAL MUSTAFA ??????? AMIN either MADE BY MUSTAFA ???? AMIN

SANA either DATE

now, it's seems to have a digit for date, but under reserve
12 (under reserve) 73 (I think so) either 1856

+

Dom

dandi 15th April 2012 08:16 PM

Thank you, Dom!
I appreciate your help and I am very happy that I may contact people like you.
Once again thank you very much for your reply and that you paid attantion to me.
According to this I agree with David R who said that damaged, incomplete, and stripped weapons are often more informative than perfect examples.
I would like to show you here some of my possessions - yataghans, found in villages near my home town - one of the centers of gun craft and trade in the past.
The yataghans are not luxory made, but they are made for ordinary people to use them in battles.
I would like also to show you some knives made in Bulgaria in the same period named ''karakulak'' and ''akulak'' /which means black and white ear/.

dandi 15th April 2012 08:44 PM

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This is the first yataghan.

dandi 15th April 2012 08:59 PM

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One more yataghan.

dandi 15th April 2012 09:12 PM

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Yataghans

dandi 15th April 2012 09:17 PM

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Yataghan from Anatolia

dandi 15th April 2012 09:28 PM

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Karakulaks

dandi 15th April 2012 09:30 PM

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Karakulak

Dom 16th April 2012 05:59 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandi
I would like to show you here some of my possessions - yataghans, found in villages near my home town - one of the centers of gun craft and trade in the past.
The yataghans are not luxory made, but they are made for ordinary people to use them in battles.
I would like also to show you some knives made in Bulgaria in the same period named ''karakulak'' and ''akulak'' /which means black and white ear/.
Hi "dandi"
"villages near your home town" ... may be ... you could be more explicit ;)
because Bulgaria it's a large country :p
each year, or nearly, I'm crossing Bulgaria, from Serbia, to Turkey on my way to ... Cairo
I have to confess that we never made a stop over in Bulgaria, the language barrier it's a brake :o ...
we are fluent in 3 languages; French, English and Arabic, but no one Slave language ... nobody 's perfect .. lol :shrug:

I learned at least something today, because, I wasn't have ideas about ''karakulak'' and ''akulak''
your collection is very attractive, and intructive
concerning weapons of high origins, everybody, included myself, haven't a "Topkapi" quality
my yatagans as well as yours, was with people of average extraction, don't be shy
here attached, pictures for my 3 yatagans
best regards

+

Dom

dandi 17th April 2012 06:14 PM

Hi Dom,
The yataghans and the karakulaks that I presented here are from the region of my home town Sliven and the villages near it, but they are also wide spread all over Bulgaria, especially in the mountains.
Sliven was one of the largest industrial centers in Bulgaria in past. Here in Sliven, have been manufactured the famous shishane of Sliven and boiliya-decorated with pearls and brass elements and horns from buffalos.The have the famous flint mechanism.If you are interested I may show you here some examples of such rifels from my collection.
The yataghans that you showed me here from your collection are very beautiful and of high quality. I wish I could have any like yours!
According to the stands on which the yataghans are exposed I see we use the same kind of stands. :) So I would like to show you my stand with karakulaks and a set of arnaut pistols.There is a stamp under the barrel of one of them. So may be anybody may help me and comment this stamp.
Best wishes,
Dandi

dandi 17th April 2012 06:29 PM

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karakulaks


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