Tulwar European blade? for comment

[HUSAR]

Dear Memnbers:
What is your opinion about the blade in this tulwar? Do you think it is European or rather Indian "mimic" work? The blade is non damscus, slightly curved 75 cm long, both sides 3 times marked GENOA. Thank you in advance for any comments.
Best
Husar

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Husar,

I think it must be an Indian blade, as I don't think any European blade factory would have marked a blade three times on each side.
Nice tulwar and a nice used blade.

[HUSAR]

I think you are right Jens, it look like somebody was trying to make this tulwar more expensive and went too far :D anyway I like it and it is well balanced
Thanks Jens for comment

[katana]

Nice Tulwar....I have to agree with Jens ...I dont think this is a Euro blade either

[Hrthuma ibn Marwan]

Its strange though.. Genoa is a city in Italy..

A very nice sword btw :)

[katana]

Genoa is a port and has had regular trading contact with India for many centuries......I cannot find any information on swordsmithing in Genoa....so it does seem strange that it is on the blade.....unless it has something to do with the trade link... :confused:

[Rivkin]

As far as I know, "Genoa" is considered one of the possible "parents" of "gurda". According to Lenz "Marks on weapons" and Astvatzaturjan originally such mark was indeed placed on swords from Genoa, however then it was adopted by germans and later copied throughout the word.

The mark here does not seem genuine enough since "jaws" (two eyebrow-like lines) are too schematic. Locally made ?

[Jim McDougall]

I completely agree with Jens, this appears to be a well made Indian interpretation of probably European sabre blades. The stepped blade near the base seems an Indian characteristic on some tulwar blades.
The 'Genoa' is an application often employed on numerous trade blades implying degree of quality and was often associated with the well known 'sickle' marks . These marks looking like toothed half circles in parallel often appeared with 'Genoa' or sometimes 'fringia' and without words as well, and are known to have used in Styrian and Caucasian bladeworks (where the term gurda denotes 'good blade' I am told).

[HUSAR]

Hello
Thank you for comments, now I`m more sure that this is not an European blade… According to GENOA marks or other mentioned by Jim please find some on the picture I have some blades on which is even wrong spelling as GNEOA and GANEA … Imported blades from Italy were very often used in Polish swords.
Regards
Husar

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Husar,

Yes it is a bit tricky, but thank you for the illustration. I am especially interested in one at the bottom to the right. Have alook at this one.

[HUSAR]

Hi Husar,

Yes it is a bit tricky, but thank you for the illustration. I am especially interested in one at the bottom to the right. Have alook at this one.
Hi Jen
on what kind of blade do you have this one? Can you post picture of whole?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes i can, although i don't see what difference it makes.

[HUSAR]

HI Jens
I just wonted to see blade construction, which reminds me european smiths hmm
the second mark near the hilt is with persian characters inside or?? I checked few of my books but I could not find the same marking :( I can only say that "stars" look simmilar to markings on one of my firangi swords.


Best
Husar

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Husar,

The deep stamp close to the langet says 'Ibrahim', and at the back of the blade is another inscription.
Do you know this one?

[HUSAR]

No sorry I do not know but I have seen turkish karabela sword with very similar markings, I will see it again next month and try to take pictures OK, that karabela is marked almost in the same way with nice heavy blade almost 5 cm wide near the tip. The other marking on the blade back looks like indian to me.
I have simmilar on a few tulwars, and I consider them as arsenal markings given to swords later than blades were made ...maybe wrong :) This tulwar is non-damascus?
Best
Husar

[Jens Nordlunde]

I doubt very much that you will find this on a karabela, as it is Sanskrit meanind K/Ka/kah. But it would be very interesting to see pictures of your tulwars with this mark.

Jens

[HUSAR]

I doubt very much that you will find this on a karabela, as it is Sanskrit meanind K/Ka/kah. But it would be very interesting to see pictures of your tulwars with this mark.

Jens
this karabela has simmilar marking to this one on the tulwar blade and is also marked near the hilt not on the back I will manage pictures and send you within few weeks, my tulwars are marked but not same charcters
I will make pictures and send you too...