Armenian Yatagan with Extreme Curve

[AvtoGaz]

Just arrived today. This is quite possibly one of the rarest ethnographic weapons, I am only aware of one example that ever sold (this one, sold once in 2012, the same example sold to yours truly in late 2023) and a very small number of photographs of 2 other examples, which were posted to this forum. So needless to say it's a great privilege to have this in my collection.

In terms of identifying this weapon, it seems to be a very extravagant version of the Kurdish-Armenian yatagans, which are somewhat more well-known and documented. The closest thing, both in blade form and decoration, is this Yatagan (find it below) with stylistic inscriptions in the Armenian alphabet.

[gp]

beautiful ! Thank you very much for showing this☼

Question I have is how it was used or better:
did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?

[AvtoGaz]

did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?

Impossible to tell, given the lack of sources, how this weapon was used or if it was even used at all. May have very well been a decorative piece. I will say, it is a lot sturdier than the Black Sea Yatagan I own.

[Jim McDougall]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29300&highlight=black+yataghanshttp://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29300&highlight=black+yataghanshttp://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29300&highlight=black+yataghanshttp://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29300&highlight=black+yataghanshttp://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29300&highlight=black+yataghans




Falls right into place with your previous thread and entries.

[kronckew]

beautiful ! Thank you very much for showing this☼

Question I have is how it was used or better:
did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?


Possibly like the videos on YouTube re: African sickle sword fencing. Is the inside edge sharp?


I've seen a video of a shotel duel with shields where the shotel was used as a hook to get past the shield.

[gp]

Possibly like the videos on YouTube re: African sickle sword fencing. Is the inside edge sharp?


I've seen a video of a shotel duel with shields where the shotel was used as a hook to get past the shield.

thank you;also to my mind came the pentjak / pencak fighting like seen in this vid on 48 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPy2tZ4wFiY

but then again, one can't compare the specific pencak defence with traditional fencing as the pencak techniques do involve other manual close combat techniques which one migh presume is / was not part of defence and fighting in this yataghan region

[kronckew]

thank you;also to my mind came the pentjak / pencak fighting like seen in this vid on 48 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPy2tZ4wFiY

but then again, one can't compare the specific pencak defence with traditional fencing as the pencak techniques do involve other manual close combat techniques which one migh presume is / was not part of defence and fighting in this yataghan region


I'm sure there will be videos of the similar japanese Qama sickles on the 'tube. These all are rather smaller & more nimble than swords, with different balance. More axe like.

[serdar]

Why do people call yatagan any sword or knife that has a curve?
Yatagan is ottoman short sword or long knife, and nothing else, black sea “yatagan” is not a yatagan, it is a black sea sword, or we could call rapier with flame blade yatagan by that way.

[kronckew]

Why do people call yatagan any sword or knife that has a curve?
Yatagan is ottoman short sword or long knife, and nothing else, black sea “yatagan” is not a yatagan, it is a black sea sword, or we could call rapier with flame blade yatagan by that way.


They don't. A Yat has a 'recurved blade' - not just a 'curved' blade, curved in front of the axis for the first portion, then returning towards the axis nearer the tip, for a more axe-like cut or chop, and is single edged, sharp on the inside rather than the outside of the curve for the majority of the edge. They are guardless and almost always have an 'eared' grip. Some straighter Yats are called that out of courtesy. Fabergé swords are double-edged and the luks cancel out the curve. They also have elaborate hand guards. 'Rapier' is not very well-defined term, Yataghan is also a bit woolly. Most terms we use as collectors, are rather flexible. Black sea yats do start off with the edge curved down, but they then curve up rather dramatically and they have 'eared' grips and no guards. rather more kopis-like.

This is my Yataghan-style hunting sword. Recurved blade, from a french 'yataghan' sword bayonet from 1866, fitted with a cross guard & shell, & un-eared horn grip. Not a 'yataghan' but in the style of one.

[simsar999]

Just arrived today. This is quite possibly one of the rarest ethnographic weapons, I am only aware of one example that ever sold (this one, sold once in 2012, the same example sold to yours truly in late 2023) and a very small number of photographs of 2 other examples, which were posted to this forum. So needless to say it's a great privilege to have this in my collection.

In terms of identifying this weapon, it seems to be a very extravagant version of the Kurdish-Armenian yatagans, which are somewhat more well-known and documented. The closest thing, both in blade form and decoration, is this Yatagan (find it below) with stylistic inscriptions in the Armenian alphabet.

It may be for theater or a performance. The engaving at the man on the end matches my Qajar theatrics kindjal very closely. See my post on it as well.