Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th February 2024, 08:16 PM   #1
AvtoGaz
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 32
Default Armenian Yatagan with Extreme Curve

Just arrived today. This is quite possibly one of the rarest ethnographic weapons, I am only aware of one example that ever sold (this one, sold once in 2012, the same example sold to yours truly in late 2023) and a very small number of photographs of 2 other examples, which were posted to this forum. So needless to say it's a great privilege to have this in my collection.

In terms of identifying this weapon, it seems to be a very extravagant version of the Kurdish-Armenian yatagans, which are somewhat more well-known and documented. The closest thing, both in blade form and decoration, is this Yatagan (find it below) with stylistic inscriptions in the Armenian alphabet.
Attached Images
     
AvtoGaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2024, 08:48 PM   #2
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 690
Default

beautiful ! Thank you very much for showing this☼

Question I have is how it was used or better:
did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2024, 09:12 PM   #3
AvtoGaz
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gp View Post
did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?
Impossible to tell, given the lack of sources, how this weapon was used or if it was even used at all. May have very well been a decorative piece. I will say, it is a lot sturdier than the Black Sea Yatagan I own.
AvtoGaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2024, 11:12 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,840
Default

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...lack+yataghans




Falls right into place with your previous thread and entries.
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2024, 05:59 PM   #5
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gp View Post
beautiful ! Thank you very much for showing this☼

Question I have is how it was used or better:
did it require special or different style or way of fencing ?

Possibly like the videos on YouTube re: African sickle sword fencing. Is the inside edge sharp?


I've seen a video of a shotel duel with shields where the shotel was used as a hook to get past the shield.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2024, 06:39 PM   #6
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 690
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew View Post
Possibly like the videos on YouTube re: African sickle sword fencing. Is the inside edge sharp?


I've seen a video of a shotel duel with shields where the shotel was used as a hook to get past the shield.
thank you;also to my mind came the pentjak / pencak fighting like seen in this vid on 48 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPy2tZ4wFiY

but then again, one can't compare the specific pencak defence with traditional fencing as the pencak techniques do involve other manual close combat techniques which one migh presume is / was not part of defence and fighting in this yataghan region
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th February 2024, 05:32 PM   #7
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gp View Post
thank you;also to my mind came the pentjak / pencak fighting like seen in this vid on 48 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPy2tZ4wFiY

but then again, one can't compare the specific pencak defence with traditional fencing as the pencak techniques do involve other manual close combat techniques which one migh presume is / was not part of defence and fighting in this yataghan region

I'm sure there will be videos of the similar japanese Qama sickles on the 'tube. These all are rather smaller & more nimble than swords, with different balance. More axe like.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2024, 01:11 AM   #8
serdar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Posts: 53
Default

Why do people call yatagan any sword or knife that has a curve?
Yatagan is ottoman short sword or long knife, and nothing else, black sea “yatagan” is not a yatagan, it is a black sea sword, or we could call rapier with flame blade yatagan by that way.
serdar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2024, 11:00 AM   #9
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serdar View Post
Why do people call yatagan any sword or knife that has a curve?
Yatagan is ottoman short sword or long knife, and nothing else, black sea “yatagan” is not a yatagan, it is a black sea sword, or we could call rapier with flame blade yatagan by that way.

They don't. A Yat has a 'recurved blade' - not just a 'curved' blade, curved in front of the axis for the first portion, then returning towards the axis nearer the tip, for a more axe-like cut or chop, and is single edged, sharp on the inside rather than the outside of the curve for the majority of the edge. They are guardless and almost always have an 'eared' grip. Some straighter Yats are called that out of courtesy. Fabergé swords are double-edged and the luks cancel out the curve. They also have elaborate hand guards. 'Rapier' is not very well-defined term, Yataghan is also a bit woolly. Most terms we use as collectors, are rather flexible. Black sea yats do start off with the edge curved down, but they then curve up rather dramatically and they have 'eared' grips and no guards. rather more kopis-like.

This is my Yataghan-style hunting sword. Recurved blade, from a french 'yataghan' sword bayonet from 1866, fitted with a cross guard & shell, & un-eared horn grip. Not a 'yataghan' but in the style of one.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by kronckew; 12th March 2024 at 11:14 AM.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.