Iron Helmet

[Joe1475]

Hi,
I'm a new member but not exactly new to the forums. I would first like to say hello. I collect some weapons and armor and practice HEMA on occasion. I used to lean more towards firearms but have always had an affinity for swords. I purchased this helmet from an auction and have received several different versions of stories. So, I wanted to see what the members here can add.

Thank you in advance!

Joe

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum Joe; hope you enjoy being here :).
Could you post other pictures of your helmet ... in different positions ?

[Joe1475]

I will try to post some better pictures later but here is another angle.

Thank you

[fernando]

Missed ? ;)

[Joe1475]

:)

[fernando]

Upright now ;).


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[fernando]

Both ;).


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[fernando]

So ... Gentlemen; no comments ?

[francantolin]

:)

Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..

[Raf]

Hello,
Rivets seems really new, so ,
is all the helmet newly made and then artificially aged...
Have you a picture of the inside of the helmet/ the nails..

Agreed. Assembled fairly recently from old already rusted scrap steel using modern rivets and hinges. What did the auction describe it as ?

[Kmaddock]

Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum.
Pictures of the inside of the helmet and the rivets especially would tell a lot.
Could you please put these up when you have a chance.
Regards,
Ken

[Joe1475]

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

[cel7]

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

To me, the modern hinges are a clear indication that it is a copy that has been artificially aged.

[Raf]

Sorry, have been busy. The auction listed it as Iron helmet 8-11 Cent AD. It was purchased in Germany.

I'm surprised that the auction described it as such. Given that if genuine it would be a very rare and expensive thing. For comparison the Yarm helmet . UK.A river find in the 1950s , Doubts were initially raised about its authenticity due to its rather crude construction and its suspicious resemblance to a well documented German example. Now accepted as genuine. The material is wrought iron with a phosphorus content . 1 to 2 mm thick. Note the flat head rivets.

[Joe1475]

The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.

[Raf]

Here is another version with the same problematic rivets . For comparison something similar from Brooklyn Museum. Egypt 7 - 8 century.

[fernando]

And here is an example dated from the 12th. century, attributed to a German crusader, fallen in the siege of Lisbon. No hinges in this one.


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[C4RL]

Is the hinge brass? An image of the hinge from inside would be nice, just out of interest.

[toaster5sqn]

The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?

Robert

[cel7]

The only thing I've found, touted to be original that resembles the construction and condition from around the same period is this one.

According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.

https://www.thecollector.com/ancient-roman-helmets-types-and-characteristics/

The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.

[Raf]

According to literature, the model is called a "spangen" helmet and they were already popular in Roman times. The photo shown here comes from the website below.

https://www.thecollector.com/ancient-roman-helmets-types-and-characteristics/

The hinges of the cheek plates still seem too modern to me, but I give them the benefit of doubt. What strikes me is the even thickness of the cheek plates. The parts of a helmet were hammered at the time, but these look so perfect, no hammer marks. They look cut out.

Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.

[Joe1475]

The supposedly genuine similar example shown by Joel1475 has the cheek pieces pointing towards the neck guard?!! Definitely not suspicious at all, right?

Robert

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.

[Raf]

I thought the same thing the first time I saw it but then it appears that the neck guard may be a brim.

I think we can assume this was intended as a neck guard.

[Radboud]

Read the small print . 'Via Apollo Galleries' Now search Apollo Galleries reviews and scroll down to Reddit.

That pretty much guarantees the helmet’s a fake.