View Full Version : Javanese Cirebon Rajamala Coteng-like keris hilt
alexish
10th September 2017, 07:04 AM
I have always been curious about the origin of the coteng form Thailand. Coould it be inspired by the Rajamala hilt form Cirebon Java? I enclose an old example of a Rajamala hilt which strongly resembles a Coteng.
Sajen
10th September 2017, 08:23 PM
Hi Alexish,
very good possible and I think that this was discussed here before and I think that others like Kerner has noticed this resemblance before when I remember correct.
Regards,
Detlef
David
11th September 2017, 09:27 PM
Hi Alexish,
very good possible and I think that this was discussed here before and I think that others like Kerner has noticed this resemblance before when I remember correct.
Regards,
Detlef
Yes, this has been discussed here before. If i am not mistaken Shahrial did some comparisons on these hilt forms some time ago. I'll try to find that thread.
alexish
11th December 2017, 02:33 PM
I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.
Sajen
11th December 2017, 03:33 PM
I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.
Sorry Alexish,
this isn't a Tegal Rayamala hilt, it look like Sumatran hilt with some Malay features to my eyes or a very unusual Coteng hilt.
Here a hilt from my own collection.
Regards,
Detlef
David
11th December 2017, 04:25 PM
I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.
To my eyes i would consider this a coteng hilt. Like Sajen, i also do not think it originates in Cirebon.
kai
11th December 2017, 10:38 PM
Sorry to disagree, this isn't any genuine coteng hilt; I also don't see any features that suggest a Sumatran origin.
This looks like rather poor, later craftsmanship to me. I'd guess at a maker from Java/Madura...
Regards,
Kai
David
11th December 2017, 11:15 PM
Sorry to disagree, this isn't any genuine coteng hilt; I also don't see any features that suggest a Sumatran origin.
This looks like rather poor, later craftsmanship to me. I'd guess at a maker from Java/Madura...
Regards,
Kai
Kai, you may well be right, but you are not necessarily disagreeing with me. I should have been clearer. When i said i would identify this as a coteng hilt i was not considering whether or not it was an old original or a recent copy. I was referring more to the style of hilt. Frankly i don't know enough about coteng hilts to determine the age of this hilt or exact origin, but the elements of the hilt were clearly designed it appear as a coteng hilt might, especially around the mouth, eyes and nose. What i was most trying to debate was that i do not think this is an example of a Cirebon hilt as Alexish has suggested. ;)
A. G. Maisey
11th December 2017, 11:39 PM
I know very little about cotengs, I know a little bit about North Jawa.
In my opinion this is not a hilt from Cirebon, nor from the Pesisir in general.
Workmanship looks fairly crude.
I feel that it has been carved from a light, rather soft wood and stained or lacquered, in which case we might be looking at something from the 1970's-1990's.
I have no idea at all where it might be from.
Sajen
12th December 2017, 06:55 PM
Kai, you may well be right, but you are not necessarily disagreeing with me. I should have been clearer. When i said i would identify this as a coteng hilt i was not considering whether or not it was an old original or a recent copy. I was referring more to the style of hilt. Frankly i don't know enough about coteng hilts to determine the age of this hilt or exact origin, but the elements of the hilt were clearly designed it appear as a coteng hilt might, especially around the mouth, eyes and nose. What i was most trying to debate was that i do not think this is an example of a Cirebon hilt as Alexish has suggested. ;)
The same I can say about my comment, I only want to state that it isn't a hilt from Tegal. But have to agree about age and craftsmanship with Kai and Alan.
Jean
12th December 2017, 08:29 PM
I agree with others but would consider South Sumatra (Lampung) as the most probable origin for the hilt shown by Alexish in post#4 or at least a possible one.
Regards
alexish
5th April 2018, 05:16 AM
Dear Collectors,
Here is a brand new Rajamala hilt carved in Madura, based on the design in the first post.
alexish
5th April 2018, 05:37 AM
Here is also a newly-carved Sumatran (Palembang) version of either a Rajamala or Coteng Hilt, which was also made in Madura. This is based on a figural hilt in a previous post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6477&highlight=figural+bird
Rick
5th April 2018, 06:38 PM
Here is also a newly-carved Sumatran (Palembang) version of either a Rajamala or Coteng Hilt, which was also made in Madura. This is based on a figural hilt in a previous post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6477&highlight=figural+bird
To be brutally honest... :(
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