The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All. I have just received a superb Omani Battle Sword(AKA SAYF YAMAANI) into my personal collection. This is an interesting mark. It has 10 geometric grooves around the pommel and the hilt is actually 8 sided though it looks round it's not. The top hole of the hilt has a small pin for holding a wrist cord. Originally the hilt would have been wound with leather and the wooden core scabbard also leather bound. Two small holes in the crossguard would have been decorated with small silver buttons. All of this restoration work is now being drawn up.

For the update on detail on this and other Omani Swords see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455 in particular regarding the Sayf Yamaani Swords vital statistics and comparisons please check posts 160 312 and 314.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes; So vital is the post at 312 of my reference that I include it here verbatum (but with an additional note on the 8 sided hilt at the end*) for ease of perusal.


Re-Comparison of Abbasid sword and Sayf Yamaani The old Omani Battle Sword ... Ammended as below:


The Topkapi museum holds the key. The Abbasid 9th Century Sword in their collection viz; http://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/turk/TopkapiArms2.html
is compared to the Omani Short Battle Sword (Sayf Yamaani)as follows;

1. Both are early two edged Islamic Arab Battle Swords.
2. Both blades have an integral tang with an added pommel or cap.
3. Both have three holes in the handle which is similarly constructed with rivets. The top hole apparently for a wrist strap.
4. Both weapons have quillons.
5. Both blades are wing shaped in cross section, thinning toward the tip.
6. Both blades culminate in a round/spatulate tip.
7. Both blades (though not all examples of the Omani sword) have the golden dot or dots on the blade. The dot in Islamic geometry is an important centre of the universe construct.
8. Both hilts are topped with a cap in the case of the Abbasid and an Islamic arch pommel culminating in a short spike on the Omani.
9. Neither blade has risers nor fullers though in much later blades fullers may appear.
10. Both blades are stiff and generally only slightly flexible.
11. Both handles are octagonal in cross section *
12. If the rounded tip concept is accepted; the style of fighting must have been "chop and slash" in both cases.

Since the Abassid were in Oman with garrisons suppressing the Ibadi religious movement, thus, in direct conflict with the organisation led by the Omani Ibn Julanda (First Immam) in 751 a.d. It is therefor additionally evidenced by the 12 factors above that their battle sword was designed from the Abassid weapon and slightly changed to reflect a heraldic hilt or modified to the Omani design. It was called Sayf Yamaani though precise location of manufacture is still being sought; Yemen(Hadramaut), Nizwa or elsewhere in Oman being likely contenders.
* The octagonal shape is a take off from the 8 sided Minaret structure of Abbasid Mosques and commonly seen in Islamic geometric expression in their art form.

[Al Shamal]

Mabrook!
:cool:

[ariel]

I really love them. They are so archaic, functional, with nary an embellishment. Truly fighting sword with battlefield being its home. I can hardly imagine one of those hanging on the wall, although I did see examples with silver-clad handles. But even those were austerely brutal.

I have one only, and have shown it here already. Now I need to find another mis-identified one for $100 with no watchers:-)

[TribalBlades]

The blade looks similar to the Touareg Takouba (as on the vikingsword website logo above).

maybe it is the way of the desert dwelling nomads.

[colin henshaw]

A fine sword. Congratulations !

[Michael Blalock]

Very nice sword Ibrahiim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ This is indeed an awesome battle sword. I have, however only ever seen one proper looking stamp or rather inscription which I believe has a date and the makers name but I cannot decipher..Possibly Nizwa.

I have just completed a restoration of a couple of hilts (leather work) and the placement of scabbards with swords that had none... lost in time....The leather work is as per the Battle Sword Example at the TRM in Quwait and various examples in Muscat museums. The leather is occasionally dyed either black or brown. The pattern typically geometric. This is a multi phase restoration with the remaining phase to include silver mounts and possible silver floral work to the 2 holes in the crossguard... small silver studs. There may be added quite extensive silver to the throat and toe. Over the last few centuries and certainly since the 1744 takeover of the dynasty now ruling this sword has become iconic and even has a silver hilt like the Royal Khanjar.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~ Just to bring the thread up to speed with the pairing up of the Terrs Shield (a Buckler form) and a Royal Hilt. The sword shown is the same sword restored above at left on final picture etc :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Library; A largely pictorial note is logged in here to patch in the varieties of like type swords identified as far back as Abassiid through the Mamluke and Ottoman transfer of technology and via the Abasiids directly to the Omani style during their battles in the 8th C.ad...

The long metalic hilt is being pondered as of January 2013 as linked with the development of the Omani long hilt Sayfs and Kattaras possibly late 18th C. either accidentally or deliberately linked to the formation of the Al busaiid dynasty and / or with the slave trade link.

The Omani Battle Sword is being viewed as linked to the Abassiid in either its dis similar hilt form (photo 3 below) or the long hilt in the Istanbul Military Museum likely to also be Mamluke and Abbasiid.

Where the Wallace Sword fits is also open to conjecture.... it is dated about 1790.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All Note to Library So as to be less confusing I will tend to only mention Omani Battle Swords on this thread... and use the other thread Kattara for comment http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&page=11&pp=30 for the inclusion of Sayf dancing sword and Kattara detail for now even though the paths of these swords pass in front of each other and are often mingled together. Where I refer to Mamluke Swords I mean Mamluke Swords in the Ottoman sense of sword as technology transfered down the ages thus likely to be Abasiid. i.e. Ottoman, Mamluke, Abasiid thus likely to have been used against the Oman in 751 a.d. by the Iraqi garrisons in Oman at the time suppressing Ibathi Islam.... and garrisoned in Buraimi.

We know in addition that the swords at picture 3 are Abassiid since similar variants appear in the Topkapi museum named as such. For a view of the Topkapi swords see picture 4 below.

A full comparison done at "Kattara for comments" http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&page=11&pp=30 #314 notes the following in the case of similarities with the weapons at 4.

1. Both are early two edged Islamic Arab Battle Swords.
2. Both blades have an integral tang with an added pommel or cap.
3. Both have three holes in the handle which is similarly constructed with rivets. The top hole apparently for a wrist strap.
4. Both weapons have quillons.
5. Both blades are wing shaped in cross section, thinning toward the tip.
6. Both blades culminate in a round/spatulate tip.
7. Both blades (though not all examples of the Omani sword) have the golden dot or dots on the blade. The dot in Islamic geometry is an important centre of the universe construct.
8. Both hilts are topped with a cap in the case of the Abbasid and an Islamic arch pommel culminating in a short spike on the Omani.
9. Neither blade has risers nor fullers though in much later blades fullers may appear.
10. Both blades are stiff and generally only slightly flexible.
11. Both handles are octagonal in cross section *
12. If the rounded tip concept is accepted; the style of fighting must have been "chop and slash" in both cases.

Now in comparing the Omani Battle Sword at picture 1 below with Picture 2s Sword all of the above plus in terms of the hilt an almost identical style in two distinct sections with a pointed pommel (not attached to the tang) though variation in the cuff which is twice as big in the Mamluke version and the quillons blend in the Mamluke to form flanking strengtheners to the cuff.

I hope this brings this thread into line with the other threads with similar input... and slightly re-aligns the general theory about the Omani Battle Sword.

This falls into line timewise and insofar as the previous hypothesis on Omani Battle Swords changes nothing in the original but leaves open several routes on the following which will be spun off to other threads but placed here for reference;

1. How did the sword at picture 2 below influence Red Sea Swords introduced there by the Ottoman Empire ? If so when and where?
2. Did the long metalic hilt at picture 2 influence the Omani design of long hilt on the Sayf and Kattara. If so when?
3. Did this sword or the sword at picture 3/4 have any other Red Sea influence? If so when and where?
4. How does the Wallace sword fit in with this sword family if at all ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

Note (It can be seen that the swords at both 3(Mamluke) and 4(Abasiid) are the same type.)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

More Old Omani Battle Swords.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ Note to Library; The top hole is well illustrated in Omani Battle Swords. The tang falls short of that point having two securing holes. The obvious reason that it was used as a wrist strap anchor point is generally accepted. On the very odd occasion it is sometimes seen filled with a rivvet.

Interestingly the crossguard has two holes mirroring the design of the Mamluke sword suggesting that this entire design is a cross of two museum forms shown in post #10.

The Omani Battle Sword is similar in design to the Ottoman/ Mamluke Sword at Picture 1 post# 10 on 13 counts and to the Mamluke/ Ottoman Sword at Picture 2 post# 10 on 16 counts.

The two Ottoman/Mamluke forms by association and design comparison must therefor both be Abbassiid.

The technology transfer to the Omani Battle Sword is thus still underpinned at 751 AD.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Earliest known picture of an Omani Battle Sword seen on a sketch of Sultan Bin Bargash though actually quite late in the 19th C. :) proving that it was Iconised and carried by Royalty and well on into the early 20th C and beyond..(It is still Iconised today)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; Wiki encyclopedia states that Khalid bin Barghash of Zanzibar.
Sayyid Khalid bin Barghash Al-Busaid (1874 – 1927) (Arabic: خالد بن برغش البوسعيد‎) was the sixth Sultan of Zanzibar and the eldest son of the second Sultan of Zanzibar, Sayyid Barghash bin Said Al-Busaid. Khalid briefly ruled Zanzibar (from August 25 to August 27, 1896), seizing power after the sudden death of his cousin Hamad bin Thuwaini of Zanzibar who many suspect was poisoned by Khalid. Britain refused to recognize his claim to the throne, citing a treaty from 1866 which stated that a new Sultan could only accede to the throne with British permission, resulting in the Anglo-Zanzibar War in which Khalid's palace and harem were shelled by British vessels for 38 minutes, killing 500 defenders, before a surrender was received. Khalid fled his palace to take refuge in the German consulate from which he was smuggled to German East Africa where he received political asylum. He was captured by British forces at Dar es Salaam in 1916 and was exiled to the Seychelles and Saint Helena before being allowed to return to East Africa where he died in Mombasa in 1927.

[Gavin Nugent]

Salaams all ~ Earliest known picture of an Omani Battle Sword seen on a sketch of Sultan Bin Bargash though actually quite late in the 19th C. :) proving that it was Iconised and carried by Royalty and well on into the early 20th C and beyond..(It is still Iconised today)

Dear Ibrahiim,

The image you have presented lacks the traditional quillons of the earlier sword types and the length and width of the sword pictured is in line with the type you claim are only dance swords.

With respect, I suggest, based on the image you have shown above and the larger detail I have presented below, that Khalid bin Barghash's sword is a long handled fighting sword of the later type you refer to as dance swords.

Regards

Gavin

[Michael Blalock]

I have always attributed the sword in this image as the earlier type. I believe the hilt has some silver cladding that softens the silouet but the quillions are definitely there.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahiim,

The image you have presented lacks the traditional quillons of the earlier sword types and the length and width of the sword pictured is in line with the type you claim are only dance swords.

With respect, I suggest, based on the image you have shown above and the larger detail I have presented below, that Khalid bin Barghash's sword is a long handled fighting sword of the later type you refer to as dance swords.

Regards

Gavin

Salaams ~ Please look again at the sketch.. It shows a straight Old Omani Battle Sword with obvious turned down quillons. Dancing swords (straight Sayf) and Kattara (Curved) longhilts didn't have quillons.

Note that I show this sketch to illustrate how late the weapon was being worn..thus in a way it was the caretaker fighting sword all the way through the Gunpowder revolution.

It would perhaps be of some benefit if you re-read the massive detail contained in the library at Kattara for comments which acts as the anchor and main source to this thread. I think that will put us on the same page.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Good people, you'll have to circle the quillons because all I see is a oval disc behind the hilt....

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have always attributed the sword in this image as the earlier type. I believe the hilt has some silver cladding that softens the silouet but the quillions are definitely there.


Salaams Michael Blalock, Yes correct it may have silver cladding since the individual Khalid bin Bargash being royalty and in the 1860/70s would likely have sported the Royal Style hilt but of course this is only a sketch. Never the less the quillons are there thus proving its an Old Omani Battle Sword. Thank you for your post.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Good people, you'll have to circle the quillons because all I see is a oval disc behind the hilt....

Gavin


Salaams ~Kindly look at post# 12 and compare. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Salaams ~Kindly look at post# 12 and compare. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim, the sword in #12 is not the sword in the drawing....there are no visible quillons in the drawing, do look closer.

Regards

Gavin

[Richard G]

I think I can see the quillons
Regards
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim, the sword in #12 is not the sword in the drawing....there are no visible quillons in the drawing, do look closer.

Regards

Gavin


Salaams. Did I say it was the same sword? I think not. Use any example of any Omani Battle Sword on thread and compare.

The sword in the sketch is with turned down quillons in the exact style of The Omani Battle Sword . Further if you consider the tubular (and usually octagonal tubular shape of the hilt) it additionally identifies this as such.

Moreover, Dancing swords, The Straight Omani Sayf, have flattened conical hilts broadening toward the frontal cuff and no crossguard or quillons as such.

Also reverse engineering this individual regarding his weapons~ he would be very unlikely to wear a dancing sword since it would be he (as Royalty) that the large congregation of march past contingent actually salute ...by waving and buzzing their dancing swords in the air as part of the tradition. Sultans don't dance ...

He on the other hand would be wearing a different sword. This one would be ideal as it likely had ... like the hilt of the Khanjar he is seen with in the same sketch... a Royal hilt Iconized and designed by one of the wives(Sheherezad) of the previous Sultan. As was his Royal turban.


The outline by Richard G further puts the point. :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

I think I can see the quillons
Regards
Richard

Thank you or higlighting this Richard.

I can see a very straight handle leading in to a Quillon block that sits atop the scabbard and being the same width as the sabbard throat, a lot like the Yemen types discussed, but to my eye, the white disc does not appear to be of the same form as the quillon block and quillons of these old swords. From what has been published in these pages, if it was called a Yemen example of the type I would somewhat agree more.

I can see to the left side something that could be considered a quillon end, but looking at left side versus the right side, the left side is higher...run a straight line squarely up from the horizontal line of the scabbard throat.

Also note that the white oval marked as the quillon block and quillons is oval in its entire form. These older swords, whilst having a slight curve to this area do not adopt an oval form as this white oval does, but ends in vertical quillons and lobed ends...the white disc does not clearly show this old form to my eye.

Even with your point being taken, I do not think this image, that can draw several visual appreciations, can be considered conclusive that it is the pure "Oman" type of the older sword. The blade's narrow width and long length is also somewhat of a rarer sword when comparing to the "type". If it is "old world", the quillon block shape would surely be considered unique and more in line with those that has been classified as "Yemeni", perhaps the Yemen attribution of these other swords discussed needs to be explored further for intermarriage.

:shrug:

PS, I must be a Sultan too, I don't dance and love waiving swords around.

[Gavin Nugent]

I missed the Royal hilted sword above and agree it could be of this type as it has the curves and size of the quillon block the others don't have along wth the more pronounced grip running in to it....which leads me to ask, what type of blades does this sword have as I doubt it is a "battle sword" of the true old type :shrug:

Gavin

[Iain]

I think I can see it - perhaps this enlarged, sharpened and labelled image will help - obviously not the pinnacle of graphic design... :D

It's very hard to tell on an image of this resolution.

[Gavin Nugent]

That is excellent Iain, it shows he shading in the pixels much clearer.

[Gavin Nugent]

Ibrahiim, thank you for bearing with me, the hole in the quillon that Iain has shown convinces me of the type absolutely. :)
Now you'll just have to convince me the "dance form" sword was only always for dance...never a fight, despite thick heavy fighting blades in the type...

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thank you or higlighting this Richard.

I can see a very straight handle leading in to a Quillon block that sits atop the scabbard and being the same width as the sabbard throat, a lot like the Yemen types discussed, but to my eye, the white disc does not appear to be of the same form as the quillon block and quillons of these old swords. From what has been published in these pages, if it was called a Yemen example of the type I would somewhat agree more.

I can see to the left side something that could be considered a quillon end, but looking at left side versus the right side, the left side is higher...run a straight line squarely up from the horizontal line of the scabbard throat.

Also note that the white oval marked as the quillon block and quillons is oval in its entire form. These older swords, whilst having a slight curve to this area do not adopt an oval form as this white oval does, but ends in vertical quillons and lobed ends...the white disc does not clearly show this old form to my eye.

Even with your point being taken, I do not think this image, that can draw several visual appreciations, can be considered conclusive that it is the pure "Oman" type of the older sword. The blade's narrow width and long length is also somewhat of a rarer sword when comparing to the "type". If it is "old world", the quillon block shape would surely be considered unique and more in line with those that has been classified as "Yemeni", perhaps the Yemen attribution of these other swords discussed needs to be explored further for intermarriage.

:shrug:

PS, I must be a Sultan too, I don't dance and love waiving swords around.


Salaams ~ The attribution of the Yemeni swords by which I assume you mean the ones perhaps related to the Military museum exhibits is being fully aired on its own thread.

The anchor thread with a full and complete detail of the Abbassiid Omani Sword technology shift which spawned the Omani Battle Sword is at ''Kattara for comments" and ideal now as a background forum library reference. The Omani Sayf or Dancing Sword has its own thread as does the Omani Kattara because they are all completely different blades and separate entities. The linkage between the Sayf and Kattara is in the long hilt form which may or may not be related to the Yemeni longhilt. (personally however, I think they are related) Separating the different swords allows each to be examined much more carefully so we can all wave them about whilst jumping up and down instead of pulling our hair out trying to fathom which is which. :D

Essentially there are 4 Omani Swords;

1.The Omani Battle Sword.
2.The Straight Sayf Dancing Sword.
3.The Curved Kattara.
4.The Omani Shamshiir (not yet launched as a thread).

I am delighted that you can see the quillons on the sketch of Sultan Bargashs Omani Battle Sword.

I will be delighted to convince you about the dancing sword in due course ... and on the other thread ya of course. The background detail is also contained in Kattara for comments and I am extracting details all the time from there.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I think I can see it - perhaps this enlarged, sharpened and labelled image will help - obviously not the pinnacle of graphic design... :D

It's very hard to tell on an image of this resolution.



Brilliant Iain ~ One day someone will teach me how to do that ! There are several give aways on determining the sword... all noted by you plus of course theres the scabbard style and the fact that Sultans don't wear dancing swords. The Tubular hilt and the very obvious quillons etc etc make it very clear but thats ok for me to say since Im sitting here with a real Omani Battle Sword on my desk ... and as you point out this is only a sketch... :shrug:
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Another spotted in the book (Richardson and Dorr).

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug:

[Al Shamal]

Salam,

Wow! I have a battle sword and i have the books by Richardson and Dorr....and I never saw the battle sword hiding in that image.....well spotted!!
:) :) :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salam,

Wow! I have a battle sword and i have the books by Richardson and Dorr....and I never saw the battle sword hiding in that image.....well spotted!!
:) :) :)


Salaams Al Shamal ~ They now produce an Arabic Version !

On the subject of Old Omani Battle Swords ~ apparently the Muscat Museums have a few of them and theres one in the Al Ain Museum which has a little silver on it in particular a silver floral button in each quillon hole. ( the tag just says "Arabian Sword" :cool: ). Theres another in the Tareq Rajab Museum in Quwait placed by me in about ''95. The largest collections are held in the UAE in private hands and each numbers about 20 or 30. I try to get pictures... no avail so far. Out there in the market there are none that I know of. They are truly rare. The museum teams are searching to upgrade in all the major countries around here with new Museums going up in Al Ain, Saudia, Qatar and the Gugenheim and Louvre projects in the UAE etc. :shrug:

Anyone able to drop in on the Tareq Rajab Museum in Quwait will be astonished at the brilliant collection ... Picture below shows another of their Omani Battle Swords silvered up Royal Icon style to the right of an Omani Dancing sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ Note to Library;

The Old Omani Battle Sword ~ Sayf Yamaani ~ This one with some new work on the hilt using silver stitches and leather. Light wonky but will try to get a better shot later...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ Better Shot Later ~

What is quite interesting is that this sword came from Rostaq and belonged to a member of the Yaruba dynasty who essentially were the power who ejected the Portuguese in 1650 from Oman. They would probably have used swords like this to do the job... The Old Omani Battle Sword in place for 1261 years since 751 AD is the only true Omani Battle Sword and based on the Abbasiid weapon viewable at the Topkapi both compared by us at...#1. of this thread.

I have checked the hilt which is octagonal and has the original two rivet holes and the third for a wrist strap. The blade is stiff, razor sharp and round tipped with wear at the sweet spot..

The sword was discovered whilst an old house in Rostaq was being demolished. The work on the leathered hilt was completed by an old silversmith in the past 3 months at Rostaq.

The sword has the feeling of excalibur in an odd sort of way... I mean you pick it up and you're off to do battle immediately...Its a dragon slayer !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Notes; From Wikipedia.com

Quote" Country; Oman.

Region;
Al Batinah Region.

Rustaq (Arabic: الرستاق‎) is a town and wilayah (district) in the Al Batinah Region of northern Oman. The city is located at 23°23′27″N 57°25′28″E23.39083°N 57.42444°E.
The wilayah of Rustaq is in the Western Hajar, in the south of the Batinah. Rustaq was once the capital of Oman, during the era of Imam Nasir bin Murshid al Ya'arubi. Rustaq fort, built four centuries prior to the dawn of Islam in Oman, is an imposing structure built on three levels, containing separate houses, an armoury, a mosque and four towers. The tallest tower stands over 18.5m high and has a diameter of 6m. Hazm Fort is an outstanding example of Omani Islamic architecture and was built in 1711 AD. The fort's roof is built on columns, and contains no wooden supports. Its walls can withstand great impact, at no less than 3m thick at any point.
Rustaq is an area of healing warm springs, the most notable being Ain al Kasafa. Its waters runs at 45°C and are regarded as a cure for rheumatism and skin diseases due to its sulphur content.

There are three popular wadis to visit: Wadi Bani Ghafar; Wadi al Sahtan and Wadi Bani Auf. In addition, the mountains are pitted with caves such as Al Sanaqha Cave with its own subterranean springs. One of the main occupations in Rustaq is beekeeping. Pure Omani honey is a most sought-after commodity and is of the highest quality. Fruits such as pomegranates, apricots, plums and grapes are grown on the foothills of the Akhdar Mountains and brought to Rustaq for sale.

The name of this town is a derived from the Middle Iranian, rustag, (Baluchi, Persian, Kumzari, etc.), New Iranian, 'rusta', meaning a 'large village.' The term is a cognate to other Indo-European tongues such as Latin, where 'rustica', means the same thing (whence the source for the English term, 'rustic' meaning old country style... or original old form...).

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all.. Should I discover something to the contrary I will be the first to report it !! :eek:

What appears to be a rather grainy picture ... it was e mailed to me ... but I shall attempt to get a better picture in due course.. in the top picture a dancing sword.. and lower a dancing sword with a fighting blade... The first I have ever encountered. Interestingly the enclave is near Rostaq ~ and the question in my mind was always why didnt some Old Omani Battle Swords get converted to dancing swords despite their total inability to vibrate in the flicked wrist as do dancing blades? The answer is here... they did ! or at least one did. According to the owner this is a stiff heavy blade whereas the top sword is flexible.

Here we have an Old Sayf Yamaani, The Old Omani Battle Sword dressed like a dancing Sayf. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams all.. Should I discover something to the contrary I will be the first to report it !! :eek:

What appears to be a rather grainy picture ... it was e mailed to me ... but I shall attempt to get a better picture in due course.. in the top picture a dancing sword.. and lower a dancing sword with a fighting blade... The first I have ever encountered. Interestingly the enclave is near Rostaq ~ and the question in my mind was always why didnt some Old Omani Battle Swords get converted to dancing swords despite their total inability to vibrate in the flicked wrist as do dancing blades? The answer is here... they did ! or at least one did. According to the owner this is a stiff heavy blade whereas the top sword is flexible.

Here we have an Old Sayf Yamaani, The Old Omani Battle Sword dressed like a dancing Sayf. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

This isn't the first instance of these style mounts being found on solid fighting blades, over the last couple years on the various topics regarding these, I've pointed out plenty (trade blades, not the wider blade type seen here). ;)

Your response at the time has been that these are then modern combinations for the tourist market because they'd be of no use within this style of mounts - but that's always seemed unlikely to some of us and this seems to validate the latter point of view.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This isn't the first instance of these style mounts being found on solid fighting blades, over the last couple years on the various topics regarding these, I've pointed out plenty (trade blades, not the wider blade type seen here). ;)

Your response at the time has been that these are then modern combinations for the tourist market because they'd be of no use within this style of mounts - but that's always seemed unlikely to some of us and this seems to validate the latter point of view.


Salaams Iain ~ This is the first instance of a solidly stiff blade ..a fighting old Omani Battle Sword blade mounted on a dancing long hilt. In all the other instances of Sayfs (straight dancing swords)the blades have been flexible dancers or in the case of a few odd, what appear to be Red Sea variants, with stiff blades. None have the provenance European save a couple known to have been remounted in Muscat.

I reitterate that I have not handled the weapon yet but it belongs with a friend in Rostaq so I will no doubt get hold of the item soon enough. His description over the phone was that this one does not flex at all... and he realises it is a remount...

This is a completely one-off remount of an Old Omani Battle Sword blade and the only one I have ever seen. I show it as a curiousity rather than some break through in Omani Sword definition which it most certainly is not. :)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ~The Omani Battle Sword. Amazing blade marks ... Please be advised that an amazing blade (pictures) are currently with me and the owner has very kindly allowed me to publish. Which I will do as soon as I can figure out how ! :D
Note that the quillons are broken off ... This weapon has a scabbard whos picture may follow soon.. The weapon was purchased (Mutrah) thence went to Australia 30 or more years ago. I seem to see inlay metal in the tail of the animal however I shall report back after speaking with the owner. (Latten inlay ?)

The areas of concern are:
1. What is the animal configuration Dog(Perillo Spain), Wolf(Passau German) or Lion (Arabian)?
2. What is the apparent armoury roundel stamp Arabian (Mamluke?) or European ?
3. What is the significance of the apparent Star Of David ?
4. What is the other stamp?
5. Is this a refitted blade or original?
6. Are these original blade marks or copied on... locally?

Ah ...pictures ... got it ! Here goes....

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to Forum. Added detail to above post ; The purchase date is nearer 1990. There is no latten inlay in any of the stamps. The star form (Islamic) is the Star of Solomon form. The Hilt; although the Quillons are missing is an Omani Battle Sword Classic... what may be questionable is the blade. I am trying to determine its flexibility. Is it a refitted dancing blade?

The scabbard details underline the Omani Battle Sword status being of the right nature and format. What is quite amazing(to me) is the style and size...about two inches square... the Lion/Wolf... I favour Lion since its tail is of that style and it has huge claws.

What is also interesting is the roundel since we know that full moons are not Islamic (it is the other moons that attract such meaning) but what is significant about roundels is their attachment to Mamluk style as the mark of ownership..by a man of the pen (as opposed to a man of the sword). The round face ... its eyes are inkwells depicting a penbox. The lips of the face are perhaps the two separate legs of pantaloons... often illustrated thus on Mamluk insignia. More on that later.

I have noted that silver wire is hammered into the Pommel as in some other hilts of Omani Battle Swords. The octagonal hilt is very visible as are the three hilt holes; the top hole being for the wrist strap. The second pin is a later addition as they are flat headed rivvets rather than pin headed. The hand tooling to the scabbard is typical for this mark. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all ~ A full flex test has been carried out and the sword is declared stiff ... thus it is not a dancing sword blade refit ... but in fact a real Omani Battle Sword.. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams all ~ A full flex test has been carried out and the sword is declared stiff ... thus it is not a dancing sword blade refit ... but in fact a real Omani Battle Sword.. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


If this was purchased in 1990 why aren't you ascribing the same attribution of recent merger of parts as you've done with many blades of a similar nature fitted to the newer style hilt.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

If this was purchased in 1990 why aren't you ascribing the same attribution of recent merger of parts as you've done with many blades of a similar nature fitted to the newer style hilt.


Salaams Iain, Because I have looked long and hard at the components i.e. The Blade, The Hilt and the Scabbard and have decided that they are all correct for this style. Obviously the hilt needs little further discussion even though the quillons are broken off...The Scabbard is correct .... That leaves the blade.

There aren't any European marks on it like Solingen or other strikes and the 3 markings appear to be Islamic. The Lion, the circular stamp and the Star of Solomon being either makers, owners or locally applied. Even if the animal stamp/ engraving is after a European mark (perhaps the Passau wolf) it is clearly applied in Arabia.

Purchase date has nothing to do with age and so far as I can see this has little comparison to the dancing blade conundrum nor refits of that blade to other hilts...The entire business of dancing swords and hilt switching is almost totally unrelated to the Old Omani Battle Sword but naturally coming from Muttrah Souk it got my full attention from the fake/blade and hilt switchover angle. Quite literally in or up to about 1990 few people considered the older weapon and they could be got for almost nothing. It is only in the last few years that people have realised their worth even though their provenance has been wrongly attributed down the ages as 16th, 10th, Portuguese and recently of the Saladin type. At Forum I believe we have placed this weapon correctly from the first Imam of Oman period of 751 a.d. and unchanged until today.


I have had a bend test conducted by a very savvy technically excellent individual (I am in possession of the bend test diagrams) and am satisfied it is stiff in all respects.. even though it has 3 short fullers (some have fullers some don't) it is in my view an Omani Battle Blade and since I have probably handled more of these than any other person thus I think I have a good idea of what is and what is not correct for type; Its the real deal.

The only other blade of note that I know of cross fitted to an Old Omani Battle Hilt is the Solingen example clearly stamped SOLINGEN crossed with an Old Omani Battle Sword hilt in Muttrah by a known hilt switch workshop a few years ago.. but that is well recorded here by me on Forum and I even know the current owner. There is a blade at #36 which is peculiar in that it seems to be a battle blade on a dancing hilt and though interesting it is still under revue though as soon as I can get to Rostaq I will attempt to solve that mystery..

Regarding the sword here; I know the store from which this weapon came and although it closed some years ago I have photographs of it and the store owners owners who were well known. They had no reputation as hilt switchers. The owners of this weapon are also known to me.

Please advise if you think I am missing something here as amongst the Forums most esteemed members there are few with the expertise such as yours in this field and your knowledge is much admired.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

I had previously submitted a very stiff fighting blade in what you describe as dancing sword dress but it was dismissed... :shrug:
I have handled others too.... :shrug:

Are you now suggesting there is a known type because you have handled one.... :shrug:

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I have no idea to which thread or post you refer but if you would like to quote the specific post I will answer your question and if required I will point to the reasons.

I cannot understand your second point for surely you know from handling scores of weapons exactly what the characteristic feeling is of a correct form for a certain mark. I have handled many Omani Battle Swords ... probably 50 by now including the museum exhibits in the UAE and Omani National Museums. I have personally been involved in putting together a collection of more than 20 such weapons for a private collector over the past 2 decades. One of my Omani Battle Swords is in the Tareq Rajeb Museum in Quwait. I still own a handful of them and am currently appraising one from Rostaq and another with a friend from a Pacific Island !

What part of familiarity and experience am I further supposed to exhibit? I have virtually rewritten this weapons history ... and placed its pedigree correctly as 751 ad but if there is something I have missed do feel free to comment with references and I will gladly look into it. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Salaams Iain, Because I have looked long and hard at the components i.e. The Blade, The Hilt and the Scabbard and have decided that they are all correct for this style. Obviously the hilt needs little further discussion even though the quillons are broken off...The Scabbard is correct .... That leaves the blade.

There aren't any European marks on it like Solingen or other strikes and the 3 markings appear to be Islamic. The Lion, the circular stamp and the Star of Solomon being either makers, owners or locally applied. Even if the animal stamp/ engraving is after a European mark (perhaps the Passau wolf) it is clearly applied in Arabia.


I don't have the blade in hand so I'll refrain from comments regarding the origin of the blade. Suffice to say I'd consider it a wolf and of a style I've seen before.


Purchase date has nothing to do with age and so far as I can see this has little comparison to the dancing blade conundrum nor refits of that blade to other hilts...The entire business of dancing swords and hilt switching is almost totally unrelated to the Old Omani Battle Sword but naturally coming from Muttrah Souk it got my full attention from the fake/blade and hilt switchover angle. Quite literally in 1990 few people considered the older weapon and they could be got for almost nothing..

It is only in the last few years that people have realised their worth even though their provenance has been wrongly attributed down the ages as 16th, 10th, Portuguese and recently of the Saladin type. At Forum I believe we have placed this weapon correctly from the first Imam of Oman period of 751 a.d. and unchanged until today.


As I've mentioned in the past, the attributions to the 16th century, typically in an auction house setting relate to the specific item up for sale and are, on a piece by piece basis quite potentially correct.

I've also mentioned I think you use the 751 date a bit too often - unless you are seriously suggesting this particular example dates to that period. ;) Otherwise let's not go back down the rabbit hole regarding the dating of the form. :)



The only other blade of note that I know of cross fitted to an Old Omani Battle Hilt is the Solingen example clearly stamped SOLINGEN crossed with an Old Omani Battle Sword hilt in Muttrah by a known hilt switch workshop a few years ago.. but that is well recorded here by me on Forum and I even know the current owner. There is a blade at #36 which is peculiar in that it seems to be a battle blade on a dancing hilt and though interesting it is still under revue though as soon as I can get to Rostaq I will attempt to solve that mystery..

Regarding the sword here; I know the store from which this weapon came and although it closed some years ago I have photographs of it and its owners who were well known. They had no reputation as hilt switchers. The owners of this weapon are also known to me.

Please advise if you think I am missing something here as amongst the Forums most esteemed members there are few with the expertise such as yours in this field and your knowledge is much admired.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

It's always good when you know some of the background on a piece although unfortunately that doesn't preclude the parts having been assembled at a later date than the origin of either the hilt or the blade. Still, if a physical inspection of the piece has left you confident of the parts that's a good thing. As I mentioned above, I haven't had it in hand and thus won't comment on that aspect.

I'll bow out for the time being of the thread, I'd say a hunt around regarding the blade marks (particularly the wolf) will give you a pretty good idea of the age of this piece and I wish you all the best in tracking them down. the variety present on this blade is interesting and some may have been applied at differing times.

Cheers,
Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I don't have the blade in hand so I'll refrain from comments regarding the origin of the blade. Suffice to say I'd consider it a wolf and of a style I've seen before.



As I've mentioned in the past, the attributions to the 16th century, typically in an auction house setting relate to the specific item up for sale and are, on a piece by piece basis quite potentially correct.

I've also mentioned I think you use the 751 date a bit too often - unless you are seriously suggesting this particular example dates to that period. ;) Otherwise let's not go back down the rabbit hole regarding the dating of the form. :)




It's always good when you know some of the background on a piece although unfortunately that doesn't preclude the parts having been assembled at a later date than the origin of either the hilt or the blade. Still, if a physical inspection of the piece has left you confident of the parts that's a good thing. As I mentioned above, I haven't had it in hand and thus won't comment on that aspect.

I'll bow out for the time being of the thread, I'd say a hunt around regarding the blade marks (particularly the wolf) will give you a pretty good idea of the age of this piece and I wish you all the best in tracking them down. the variety present on this blade is interesting and some may have been applied at differing times.

Cheers,
Iain



Salaams Iain ~ It is interesting that you have seen the animal style before and was one of the primary reasons I posted it... to see if anyone recognised this design...If you say you recognise this as a wolf.. then wolf it is.

Regarding design timeline ... I have seen the 16th C paperwork promulgated by various auction houses on swords of this type .. It never made any sense to me, therefor, I started researching and formatted a comparison with the Abbasiid as a baseline using the Topkapi sword. I have made a fair case to point the history at the first Imam period in Oman .. The probable birthdate ...at 751 ad. That is the design date but by no means the birthdate of all Omani Battle Swords.. The birthdate is a sliding scale between then and now.... or more likely then and a point in the 18th/19th Century. Swords were produced along this date line and like many other weapons in the region because they worked and were respected ... they froze in design.

Personally (though I cannot prove it) I think it is equivalent to an Heraldic/ Religio Symbolic Weapon and in itself quite unique. It is, I believe, the Ibaathi Sword. In a similar way the dancing sword is The Busaidi Sword. One marks a religious form... the other an entire dynasty.

There are still areas to explore not least an explanation as to where it was produced and the relevance to its nickname Sayf Yemaani (Hadramaut or perhaps the enclave in Izki near Nizwa called Yemen?)

The latest craze in Muscat is to suggest that this weapon is of Saladin provenance which is laughable and without proof.

Finally and again...thanks for the heads-up on the Wolf mark.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim,

While I am well aware of your ideas regarding the source of the sword design, I think quoting the 751 date continuously does more harm than good. It gives the impression you are attributing these swords to that period. There is sadly, not a single provenanced example dating to that period among these weapons. While it may have roots in that period, it is a large leap to conclude it did not change at all during the centuries. I think it is quite possible some elements of the design due date back that far, but on the evidence available, i.e. not archaeological. It's difficult to extrapolate that much further.

I'd be interested as to what dating you would place on some of the examples you've shown. By that I mean the overall piece not just the blades which can perhaps be a older than the hilts in some cases.

All the best,
Iain

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

While I am well aware of your ideas regarding the source of the sword design, I think quoting the 751 date continuously does more harm than good. It gives the impression you are attributing these swords to that period. There is sadly, not a single provenanced example dating to that period among these weapons. While it may have roots in that period, it is a large leap to conclude it did not change at all during the centuries. I think it is quite possible some elements of the design due date back that far, but on the evidence available, i.e. not archaeological. It's difficult to extrapolate that much further.

I'd be interested as to what dating you would place on some of the examples you've shown. By that I mean the overall piece not just the blades which can perhaps be a older than the hilts in some cases.

All the best,
Iain

Salaams Iain, The design date of 751 AD marks just that... Note that there is not a single sword from the period Abbasiid save the few examples in the Topkapi and of the Umayyad dynasty prior to that ?... there are none at all. At no point have I suggested swords are present from that period but what I do say is the design did not change.

What may be an indicator on age is the appearance of blade inscriptions and stamps and perhaps the fullers which may not have been on the very early blades. Dots on the blade may be an earlier indicator. General wear is an indicator ... however none of these is very accurate. Some later editions have tubular grip whereas the proper grip is octagonal taken from the Abbasiid style etc etc. Generally because few Ethnographic Arms anywhere exist from much before 1600.. except rusted bits or remnants we tend to look at the brackets 1550 to 1850 or thereabouts. Thus existing Omani Battle Swords probably occur in that timeframe though of course with a design pedigree stretching back much further.

To show another example of design freeze simply look at three other examples of this (quote is backed up by the late Anthony North in his book Islamic Arms and Armour)... observe the freeze in the Abu Futtila, The Khanjar and since its inception in 1744 the Omani Dancing Sword. In Arabia unlike other parts of the world ... once a weapon was accepted, essentially, it did not change in design.

I conclude that the Old Omani Battle Sword was developed from the Abbasid see #1 for my comparison and that it is a Heraldic / Religious design .. The Omani Ibaathi Sword with the birthdate 751 AD and thenceforth essentially unchanged. It would of course be nice if someone were to dig up a grave with an original in it...but except for one known later example from a tomb in Jebel Akhdar there are none ... perhaps because the tradition of burying such artefacts with the dead was not the style here... in fact it was forbidden.

This is the Omani Ibaathi insignia weapon and was used in the "Funoon" before being superceded in 1744 by the Omani dancing sword to celebrate the pageant and for the Busaidi Dynasty. The Funoon goes back to the beginning of the Omani Ibaathi period marked by the selection of the first Imam Ibn Julanda in...wait for it...751 AD. The weapon didn't appear later out of fresh air... it had a purpose ... it was Heraldic. Everything about it is Islamic but more so the hilt which is nowhere else to be found in the Islamic world... why? Because it is Omani Ibaathi ... totally unique... and the major reason for its DESIGN FREEZE... and of course as the Old Omani Battle Sword. :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I ATTACH A NOTE; VERY BRIEF ON IMPORTANT DATES OF EARLY OCCUPATION OF OMAN.

After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim,

Without going into too much depth because this is mainly about how you are presenting your theory: I think your case could be stated more simply and perhaps with less potential for confusion.

This type of Omani sword has dated examples from as early as the ___ century. (I'm not sure what the earliest example with provenance is, perhaps the grave find you mentioned). Stylistically it likely takes influence from Abbasid designs, which were introduced into the region in the mid 8th century. The form closely resembles these early period swords and seems to have changed little from them. It has a tradition as a heraldic symbol within the Omani Ibaathi tradition which may account for the longevity of the form in Omani culture. Most extant examples likely date from the 17th to early 19th centuries.

I think in the absence of hard evidence, e.g. archaeology, dated examples etc. it's important to leave things just a little open ended. After all, it's impossible to be sure, although you've constructed a sound theory to explain this particular form.

Just intended as constructive comments and I hope you'll take them that way. :)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahiim,

Without going into too much depth because this is mainly about how you are presenting your theory: I think your case could be stated more simply and perhaps with less potential for confusion.

This type of Omani sword has dated examples from as early as the ___ century. (I'm not sure what the earliest example with provenance is, perhaps the grave find you mentioned). Stylistically it likely takes influence from Abbasid designs, which were introduced into the region in the mid 8th century. The form closely resembles these early period swords and seems to have changed little from them. It has a tradition as a heraldic symbol within the Omani Ibaathi tradition which may account for the longevity of the form in Omani culture. Most extant examples likely date from the 17th to early 19th centuries.

I think in the absence of hard evidence, e.g. archaeology, dated examples etc. it's important to leave things just a little open ended. After all, it's impossible to be sure, although you've constructed a sound theory to explain this particular form.

Just intended as constructive comments and I hope you'll take them that way. :)


Salaams ~ Im sure you are right. However, the discussion developed and developed and as each bit of the puzzle lined itself up a lot of the previous guesswork on dates seemed to disintegrate. What was a game changer was the Funoon... The Pageants... and further the fact that between Ibaathi Islam kicking in... and the end of Omans occupation by foreign powers it seemed we needed logic to deduce where in the phases of occupation did this weapon slide in? So here are the occupiers and a logical conclusion;

Umayyads between 661–750,
Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967,
Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934,
Buyids between 967–1053,
Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154.
Portugal about 1490... to 1650

The weapon is clearly Islamic in design (see #1 for its detailed comparison with the Abbasid at Topkapi) The finger, thus, points at that period..mid 8th C.

There is absolutely no way that it could be anything other than Ibaathi...in the same way that it couldn't be Portuguese..They hated each other. In fact I stress that it must have been used against the Abbasiids (actually garrisoned in Buraimi where I live..) because Oman had accepted The Ibaathi style and the Abbassiid were trying to batter it out of them! They hated each other also !

It seems that the date of the first Immam is key since the tie up to the Abbasid sword matches that time period and coupled with the Funoon it looks more likely. If I am right about the Heraldic/Religious nature of the sword then surely the date of the inception .. and the first Imam are underlined.

However, as you say we just dont know for sure. What we can do is continue peeling back the layers of uncertainty and hopefully one day someone will dig one up from the Mid 8thC.

I realise it is a quantum leap for people to see this sword across so many centuries and unchanged from the original mid 8thC design but that is my hypothesis. :shrug:



Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams~So that members who have not been previously sent to sleep by my long missives at Kattara for Comment (Actually an excellent resource and well worth the effort to read up) I include from there my potted history of Oman so that all windows of possibility related to external influence on the Omani Battle Sword design can be explored. (I've done it but I may have missed something therefor please feel free to double check) Here it is...with some pointers added by me. Where these refer to important dates on swords etc I have underlined, bracketed and added red colour.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote. "In 751AD Ibadi Muslims, a moderate branch of the Kharijites, established an imamate in Oman. Despite interruptions, the Ibadi imamate survived until the mid-20th century. (It is this point in time that my hypothesis places the origin for the design of the Old Omani Battle Sword.)But Oman was nonetheless conquered by several foreign powers, having been controlled by the Qarmatians between 931–932 and then again between 933–934.Between 967 and 1053, Oman was part of the domain of the Iranian Buyyids, and between 1053 and 1154, Oman was part of the Great Seljuk empire.

In 1154, the indigenous Nabhani dynasty took control of Oman, and the Nabhani kings ruled Oman until 1470, with an interruption of 37 years between 1406 and 1444.

Muscat was taken by the Portuguese on 1 April 1515, and was held until 26 January 1650, although the Ottomans controlled Muscat between 1550–1551 and 1581–1588. In about the year 1600, Nabhani rule was temporarily restored to Oman, although that lasted only to 1624, when fifth imamate, which is also known as the Yarubid Imamate ensued.. The latter recaptured Muscat from the Portuguese in 1650 after a colonial presence on the northeastern coast of Oman dating to 1508. The Yarubid dynasty expanded, acquiring former Portuguese colonies in East Africa and engaging in the slave trade. By 1719 dynastic succession led to the nomination of Saif ibn Sultan II. His candidacy prompted a rivalry among the ulama and a civil war between the two major tribes, the Hinawi and the Ghafiri, with the Ghafiri supporting Saif ibn Sultan II. He assumed power in 1748 after the leaders of both factions had been killed in battle, but the rivalry continued, with the factionalization working in favor of the Iranians, who occupied Muscat and Sohar in 1743.

The Iranians had occupied the coast before—indeed the coast was often the possession of various empires. These empires brought order to the religious and ethnic diversity of the population of this cosmopolitan region. Yet the intervention on behalf of an unpopular dynasty brought about a revolt. The leader of the revolt, Ahmad ibn Said al Said, was elected sultan of Muscat upon the expulsion of the Persians. The position of Sultan of Muscat would remain in the possession of the Al Said clan even when the imamate of Oman remained out of reach.

The Al Said clan became a royal dynasty when Ahmad ibn Said Al Said was elected imam following the expulsion of the Iranians from Muscat in 1744. (At this point the flexible Omani Dancing Sword appeared designed specifically for pageant and march past and review of/by tribal infantry before the Ruler.)Like its predecessors, Al Said dynastic rule has been characterized by a history of internecine family struggle, fratricide, and usurpation. Apart from threats within the ruling family, there was the omnipresent challenge from the independent tribes of the interior who rejected the authority of the sultan, recognizing the imam as the sole legitimate leader and pressing, by resort to arms, for the restoration of the imamate.

Schisms within the ruling family were apparent before Ahmad ibn Said's death in 1783 and were later manifest with the division of the family into two main lines, the Sultan ibn Ahmad Al Said (r. 1792–1806) line controlling the maritime state, with nominal control over the entire country; and the Qais branch, with authority over the Al Batinah and Ar Rustaq areas. During the period of Sultan Said ibn Sultan Al Said's rule (1806–1856), Oman cultivated its East African colonies, profiting from the slave trade. As a regional commercial power in the 19th century, Oman held territories on the island of Zanzibar off the coast of East Africa, the area along the coast of East Africa known as Zanj including Mombasa and Dar es Salaam, and until 1958 in Gwadar (in present-day Pakistan) on the coast of the Arabian Sea. But when the British declared slavery illegal in the mid-19th century, the sultanate's fortunes reversed. The economy collapsed, and many Omani families migrated to Zanzibar. The population of Muscat fell from 55,000 to 8,000 between the 1850s and 1870s. Most of the overseas possessions were seized by the United Kingdom and by 1850 Oman was an isolated and poor area of the world.

Late 19th and early 20th centuries

When Sultan Sa'id bin Sultan Al-Busaid died in 1856, his sons quarreled over the succession. As a result of this struggle, the empire—through the mediation of the British Government under the Canning Award—was divided in 1861 into two separate principalities: Zanzibar (with its East African dependencies), and Muscat and Oman.

The death of Sa'id bin Sultan in 1856 prompted a further division: the descendants of the late sultan ruled Muscat and Oman (Thuwaini ibn Said Al-Busaid, r. 1856–1866) and Zanzibar (Mayid ibn Said Al-Busaid, r. 1856–1870); the Qais branch intermittently allied itself with the ulama to restore imamate legitimacy. In 1868 Azzam ibn Qais Al-Busaid (r. 1868–1871) emerged as self-declared imam. Although a significant number of Hinawi tribes recognized him as imam, the public neither elected him nor acclaimed him as such.

Imam Azzan understood that to unify the country a strong, central authority had to be established with control over the interior tribes of Oman. His rule was jeopardized by the British, who interpreted his policy of bringing the interior tribes under the central government as a move against their established order. In resorting to military means to unify Muscat and Oman, Imam Azzam alienated members of the Ghafiri tribes, who revolted in the 1870–1871 period. The British gave Imam Azzam's rival, Turki ibn Said Al-Busaid, financial and political support. Turki ibn Said succeeded in defeating the forces of Imam Azzam, who was killed in battle outside Matrah in January 1871.

Muscat and Oman was the object of Franco-British rivalry throughout the 18th century. During the 19th century, Muscat and Oman and the United Kingdom concluded several treaties of friendship and commerce. In 1908 the British entered into an agreement of friendship. Their traditional association was confirmed in 1951 through a new treaty of friendship, commerce, and navigation by which the United Kingdom recognized the Sultanate of Muscat and Oman as a fully independent state.

During the late 19th century and early 20th century, the sultan in Muscat faced rebellion by members of the Ibadi sect residing in the interior of Oman, centered around the town of Nizwa, who wanted to be ruled exclusively by their religious leader, the Imam of Oman. This conflict was resolved temporarily by the Treaty of Seeb, which granted the imam autonomous rule in the interior Imamate of Oman, while recognising the nominal sovereignty of the sultan elsewhere.

The conflict flared up again in 1954, when the new imam led a sporadic 5-year rebellion against the sultan's efforts to extend government control into the interior. The insurgents were defeated in 1959 with British help. "The Buraimi Confrontation" and "The Jebel Akhdar Campaign". The sultan then terminated the Treaty of Seeb and eliminated the office of the Imam. In the early 1960s, the Imam, exiled to Saudi Arabia, obtained support from his hosts and other Arab governments, but this support ended in the 1980s. Zanzibar paid an annual subsidy to Muscat and Oman until its independence in early 1964.

In 1964, a separatist revolt began in Dhofar province. Aided by Communist and leftist governments such as the former South Yemen (People's Democratic Republic of Yemen), the rebels formed the Dhofar Liberation Front, which later merged with the Marxist-dominated Popular Front for the Liberation of Oman and the Arab Gulf (PFLOAG). The PFLOAG's declared intention was to overthrow all traditional Persian Gulf régimes. In mid-1974, the Bahrain branch of the PFLOAG was established as a separate organisation and the Omani branch changed its name to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Oman (PFLO), while continuing the Dhofar Rebellion".Unquote

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ; Note to Forum.
See http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d363.html for a similar animal mark. The write up, however, is very suspect/wrong...mixing dancing swords and battle swords.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

Salaams All ; Note to Forum.
See http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d363.html for a similar animal mark. The write up, however, is very suspect/wrong...mixing dancing swords and battle swords.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim,

I commend you on your passion and tenacity, however, you still have not left room for swords of the 19th century straight Oman type that you call dance swords that carry fighting blades.
When will you explore the type that look (By your accounts) as dancing swords but are of a fighting and practical nature.
They cannot be dismissed and your formula can not be absolute without their inclusion. I find your reluctance in the past to acknowledge the type and pursue the types bought to your attention as a little misleading within the given formula you present for they are present in the world and antiquity and must have their place.

Gavin

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim,

I commend you on your passion and tenacity, however, you still have not left room for swords of the 19th century straight Oman type that you call dance swords that carry fighting blades.
When will you explore the type that look (By your accounts) as dancing swords but are of a fighting and practical nature.
They cannot be dismissed and your formula can not be absolute without their inclusion. I find your reluctance in the past to acknowledge the type and pursue the types bought to your attention as a little misleading within the given formula you present for they are present in the world and antiquity and must have their place.

Gavin

Salaams SwordsAntiqueWeapons ~ Thank you for your comments on my tenacity and passion.

Ok, swords of the 19th C straight, Omani. I will add "Long Hilt." The only sword that fits this criteria is the Omani Dancing Sword which entered service in about 1744 with the Busaidi Dynasty. You could call this sword Heraldic.. well almost since its idea was to give praise by march past...tribal surge past in revue order in front of the ruler and of course in the traditions (The Funoon) and at weddings where it was danced with and used in the mimic fight already discussed and in depth at Kattara for Comments.

There isn't another one. What does occur is a red sea blade(and a few others) cross mounted with an Omani long hilt and more than likely done since 1970 in Muttrah Souk Muscat. A lot of these blades came up from Sanaa. I was speaking to a dealer just the other day from Salalah and I got from him 4 Yemeni Saudia swords on what I would call backyard workshop produced hilts done in Sanaa. These blades come from Ethiopia and some, if not all, are German. No doubt many blades of a Red Sea nature were cross hilted ... I estimate there are several thousand in the world sold through Muscat and Salalah, sourced in Sanaa, which fit that description.

To me it is like cross hilting a Japanese sword on a Norwegian hilt... so I ask you is it thus a Japanese sword or Norwegian?

No self respecting Omani would buy an Omani Straight sword which does not vibrate like mad! These blades bend almost double and spring straight immediately but...(please I know about bendy blades and their fantastic fighting prowess but these are different) they bend because of their "buzz in the air" ability..with a flick of the wrist. Thats why they buy them. They laugh at blades on dancing swords that don't bend.

The fighting sword is the Omani Battle Sword. :shrug:

( To keep it tight I dont mention curved swords here but there are Omani Kattara and Shamshiirs)

Please do show me any Omani Sword and I will classify it as below. :shrug:

1. Omani Battle Sword.
2. Omani Dancing Sword.
3. Omani Shamshiir.
4. Omani Kattara.
5. Tourist.
6. Another classification I haven't yet thought of ! :D


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gavin Nugent]

You have mail :-)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to Forum; Post #2 at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17556 describes the now known route of such blades; many originally 19th C German/European, sold to Ethiopia thence to Yemen(Sanaa) and Saudia and on to Salalah and Mutrah Souks which have appeared spuriously on Omani long hilts and sold to visitors/tourists as Omani swords. It is difficult to know where to slot this mixed up weapon since it is not of the family Omani Battle Sword nor is it an Omani Dancing Sword (The Straight Sayf).

It is however placed here for reference and carries the warning that an Omani long hilted straight sword with a blade that is not flexible must immediately be looked at as a potential fake and likely to be mismatched from a Red Sea variant.

Workshop in Muttrah have been identified as having created probably thousands of such mix ups since 1970. Many workshops are defunct but some remain. None of these swords appear to be absorbed into the Omani local market because;

"the dancing sword must be a certain style and able to bend often almost double since that is the criteria for the 1744 flexible dancing style continuing to be made locally today in Ras al Khaimah and Salalah and pre 1970 by wandering gypsy groups all over Oman".

I have included this post here and on Omani Dancing Swords... so that library is correctly served.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all; Note to Forum; To Reset The Clock ! :shrug:

The Omani Battle Sword "Sayf Yamaani"

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Forum... Thick hide shield known here as Terrs and used originally with the Omani Battle Sword and given to the straight pageantry sword for status purposes. Variously said to have come from Rhino, Buffalo, Hippo or sea animal possibly the Dog Of The Sea (Walruss) hide :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams; Note to Library. The British Museum exhibit...The Omani Battle Sword. Which they appear to call a dance sword (which it isn't).
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi :shrug:

[AhmedH]

Salaams; Note to Library. The British Museum exhibit...The Omani Battle Sword. Which they appear to call a dance sword (which it isn't).
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi :shrug:

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein


Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! :) I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! :) I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein


Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late... :)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late... :)
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[AhmedH]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Whoops! I meant "do complete EACH OTHER in the field of Arab swords". Sorry for the typing error!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ The Al Ain Museum has a great collection of antiquities (and a particularly extensive and excellent section dedicated to archeology of the region... brilliantly carried out by the French Team)

In the weaponry section a display of "various types of swords"...and there amongst the different types is an Omani Battle Sword (Sayf Yamaani, 3rd from top) in this case adorned with 2 silver buttons at the cross guard and a silvered pommel. From memory I think it has a dot at the tip...last time I stood in front of that case was 1988.

The line up looks like Kattara, Quaddara, Sayf Yamaani, and some sort of Flysa.

Captured for posterity ... below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all Note to library see http://www.omanisilver.com/contents/en-us/d363.html where a Voc Dutch ship on visiting Oman ...A comment by Padttbrugge a Dutchman is very interesting.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

:shrug: This is a scoop!

Salaams All ~
I have searched high and low for a picture of H.M. Sultan Qaboos, the current Ruler with an Omani Battle Sword... and had all but given up... Readers may recall the sketch of Sultan Bargash with such a weapon in the late 19th C. I believe this picture is from about 1975.

Here is the Royal Hilt (see #8 also)...in worked silver with gold accoutrements to the scabbard. The Hilt is a derivative of the Omani Royal Khanjar hilt style designed by Sheherazad...in about 1850 by a wife of a previous Sultan.(she also designed the Turban shown here). Thus the battle sword achieved Royal recognition and with its special hilt it takes its honourable place in history.

Members may remember that the Omani Dancing Sword invented after the start of the current ruling Dynasty in 1744, was designed in broadsword form, with a conical hilt from the slavers curved Kattara sword, with sharp edges and a round tip like this weapon. In addition the Terrs shield was given over to the dancing sword from its place with this Battle Sword as a mark of respect and for the traditions and pageants (The Funun).

The Battle Sword blade is very rigid, wing shaped by cross section (not flat), razor sharp on both edges and in its ancient form often without fullers. The tip is rounded not pointed as the main technique, using a small buckler shield (Terrs) was for speed work , slashing and chopping. :shrug:

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ It is the sword above that Padttbrugge a member of a Dutch Ship which visited Muscat in 1672/3 describes down to fine detail of the scabbard and blade...The blade described as heavy and rigid..or not flexible...and of broadsword style. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Omani Battle Sword...Sayf Yamaani...Suggesting a make location of Hadramaut.

I will try to post larger format... The single sword to right of group is a three dot at the throat blade and one at the tip. On the group picture the right hand weapon also has 3 dots at the throat... perhaps the dots indicate a superior maker...In the case of that sword it is silvered about the hilt ...in rather crude form and in an effort to give the sword the appearance of the Royal Hilt please see #8...from the style brought in by Said The Great (or his wife Sheherazad) All the blades are thick and non flexible with rounded tips...ideal for slash and chop behind a fast shield action ...shield (Terrs) is shown.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim thank you for posting these examples, and it is good to see this thread again and recall the great traction here in discovering more on these swords, their origins, and perspectives on the relationships in the developed forms.
The factor of the triple dots and single toward the tip on the blades is one of those mysterious conundrums in the study of these and a number of other forms that though often evident, is yet to be explained. The strategic placement of these suggests of course some sort of symbolic, perhaps even talismanic application which we can only surmise.

These 'battle swords' as we determined, while used in Omani regions indeed seems to often have been with notable Yemeni associations mostly for the blades, in many cases trade types having entered the southern Arabian peninsula from the west.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I can not get it clear what your pictures shows Ibrahiim, as I cant blow them up, but if I understand Jim correctly there are three dots at the beginning of the fuller, and three dots at the end of the fuller - is that correct?
If this is so, then it is seen on Indian blades as well.
Jens

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I can not get it clear what your pictures shows Ibrahiim, as I cant blow them up, but if I understand Jim correctly there are three dots at the beginning of the fuller, and three dots at the end of the fuller - is that correct?
If this is so, then it is seen on Indian blades as well.
Jens


Salaams Jens Nordlunde Yes the pictures I have battled with but I will get better pictures of these and the rest of a mixed Arabian Swords numbering perhaps 150 plus weapons..These came in on the phone...The 3 dots are just 3 inches in front of the guard on the blade at the throat . Occasionally only one dot...and I have seen 2 in the same position. A single dot can also be seen at the tip...about half an inch from the end.
I have it that these were to either mark a superior blade or made by a superior craftsman. There is always the possibility as noted by Jim above that these were talismanic ...The single dot being illustrative of the centre of the universe and the talismanic association with the geometric figure 3. There are interestingly three beads dangling from the end of sets of Islamic prayer beads said to prevent the devil climbing up....
I experimented with microsoft word and copying the pictures and placing on word then just expand the single blade and the three dots become visible... untill I can get better pictures...
I note that we have few pictures of these dots, however, at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455&page=3&pp=30&highlight=Omani+Swords there is a good 3 dot example on what was a snapped blade and kindly posted by Michael Blalock at #61.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Jens, exactly what I was thinking of, the placement of these three dots at key spots on the blade, I think it was tulwars at the terminus of a fuller, also at key points on the blade (I always thought of point of percussion etc.).
Naturally the thought is toward the trimurti (trinity) but again, only surmised.

With the Arab blades, it seems (per Yucel) that these gold filled holes in the blade were for good fortune or perhaps protection to the swordsman. It is unclear on the numbers as they seem to range from one to several, as well as the location on the blade.

What is interesting is that in North Africa, the most western sector of this trade network of blades, seems to have adopted the placement of filled holes with yellow metal as seen in a number of examples from Sudan into the Sahara. I need to find my notes as well as rechecking Yucel.

While not of course the main topic of this thread, which pertains to the sayf Yemeni overall, as always attending to certain subtopics like this can sometimes provide clues in the diffusion of blades and symbolic elements revealing contact and interaction between cultures.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Jens, exactly what I was thinking of, the placement of these three dots at key spots on the blade, I think it was tulwars at the terminus of a fuller, also at key points on the blade (I always thought of point of percussion etc.).
Naturally the thought is toward the trimurti (trinity) but again, only surmised.

With the Arab blades, it seems (per Yucel) that these gold filled holes in the blade were for good fortune or perhaps protection to the swordsman. It is unclear on the numbers as they seem to range from one to several, as well as the location on the blade.

What is interesting is that in North Africa, the most western sector of this trade network of blades, seems to have adopted the placement of filled holes with yellow metal as seen in a number of examples from Sudan into the Sahara. I need to find my notes as well as rechecking Yucel.

While not of course the main topic of this thread, which pertains to the sayf Yemeni overall, as always attending to certain subtopics like this can sometimes provide clues in the diffusion of blades and symbolic elements revealing contact and interaction between cultures.


Salaams Jim ...I saw a reference on this sword style where it indicates, I Quote"...According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri..."Unquote, however, I couldn't find the painting...of the miniature....

I don't altogether agree with the 18th C since we know the sword was in use after that as it is seen in a sketch of Sultan Bargash and in fact with the current Ruler ...in use certainly in the later case in its Royal Hilt form. Perhaps the reference above suggests that its use in wars was of those dates but there is no proof that it stopped being used after the 18th C.

I also question its start date as 11 th Century as it is not tied to anything ...and in which case simply would need to have appeared from nowhere? The earlier date is far more logical being tied to the former Abassiid style seen at the Topkapi and coincides with the first Imam of Oman Ibn Julanda in 751 ad... though my thought is that if it has origins in a Sword of the Prophet it may well be from around 600 ad...and certainly not the late appearance 400 years after....out of the blue...so to speak! In short I suggest that this weapon is by its very nature an Iconic Islamic Battlesword whos design stretches back to the 7th Century after which it froze...design wise until the mid 19th C when its hilt was redesigned with a Royal Hilt (but by no means in all cases) and even appears today as such...see earlier post at #69.

Could this weapon have been either introduced in 630 ad when Oman was converted en masse ...or by the exiled from Iraq Jabr Ibn Zayd who died in 711 ad and was a great leader from Nizwa region.....or by the first Imam of Oman in 751 ad ~I leave those questions penciled in the margin.

I remind readers that the absence of weapons in graves follows the tradition that items were and are not buried with bodies(in this case regrettably!) thus no sword has yet been found in a burial site save one apparently that was unearthed in Jebal Akhdar a few hundred years ago...

See an astonishing example with cartouche (I couldnt decipher) at www.trocadero.com/101antiques/items/747179/item747179.html Note the octagonal hilt and pommel as well as the three holes in the hilt...and the detail of zig zag decoration vvvvvvv on the cuff. Help is requested for a translation of that.

So that students of Islamic Arms and Armour can more easily see the relevant references I include from the above website Quote" REFERENSES:Askeri Museum Istanbul Turkey.inv.nos.2382 and 7620; for the latter see Alexandr 1985,no75 and Fig.4;other examples include Topkapi Sarayi Museum ,Istanbul,no1/2765;Wallace Collection, London England ,no1796;The Metropolitan Museum of Art,New York,no1987.43;and Splendeur des armes orientales 1988,no11 and Elgood, 1994,nos 2.13 and 2.15..MEASUREMENTS: The overall length is 87.7 cm (34 ½ in). Width of the blade at the widest point: 5.4 cm (2 1/16 inches)"Unquote.

As a finishing note please consider the name ...Sayf Yamaani. Omani names for weapons stuck... never changed... for example the Omani long gun.. Abu Futtila...thus in the naming of this sword Sayf Yamaani could this be an indicator for origin of manufacture; Hadramaut in Yemen.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All..Please see #1.

I wrote at #1 of a comparison with swords from Topkapi...and with the Omani Battle Sword "The Sayf Yamaani" that this thread discusses. Here are examples of those Topkapi weapons. So far as I am aware there are no weapons of Umayyid type ~these are Abassiid. I place Omani Battle Swords for reference..or others on this thread may be considered.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Kubur]

Hi Ibrahim,

During the 19th c., they call Abbasi swords all the Persian swords, now called shamshir. The swords of the Tokapi museum are probably from the 16th c.
But I agree with you, the Omani sword is a pure medieval shape.

Best,
Kubur

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All,

Please see Maqamat(Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri on video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ud5nsWykhM and by moving the bar to 25:04 see the Omani Battle Sword around 1,000 years ago !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Hi Ibrahim,

During the 19th c., they call Abbasi swords all the Persian swords, now called shamshir. The swords of the Tokapi museum are probably from the 16th c.
But I agree with you, the Omani sword is a pure medieval shape.

Best,
Kubur


Salaams Kubur,

Sword Dates. Not according to some of the most respected Islamic Sword specialists in the world they aren't. Try 8th or 9thC. I'm glad, however, that you agree on the medieval shape of The Sayf Yamaani..which is why I considered the two forms most carefully ...see #1.

Note; The Abbasid historical period lasting to the Mongol conquest of Baghdad in 1258 is considered the Islamic Golden Age. The Islamic Golden Age was inaugurated by the middle of the 8th century by the ascension of the Abbasid Caliphate and the transfer of the capital from Damascus to Baghdad.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All, and success with the hi tech shows the group of Sayf Yamaani for discussion. Three dots clearly seen at the throat of what seems to be a Royal Hilt (Iconic) Sayf Yamaani...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi. :shrug:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Another good clean shot of The Sayf Yamaani. The Omani Battle Sword.

[Gonzalo G]

Swords of Boabdil (Muhammad XII, Emir of Granada). In front, his jineta sword, a broadsword from the 15th Century. Seems related to your sword in some way. But much adorned, as for an Emir.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Swords of Boabdil (Muhammad XII, Emir of Granada). In front, his jineta sword, a broadsword from the 15th Century. Seems related to your sword in some way. But much adorned, as for an Emir.


Salaams Gonzalo G,
Whilst there may be some reflections from early Mamluke and even Sword of the Prophet similarity with the Spanish item I think it is only vaguely reminiscent however it is an excellent observation and I have included similar detail in the description below.

No one actually knows how old this old Omani Battle Sword is... The Sayf Yamaani, I suggest, predates Ibn Jalanda at the time Oman began to fight to remove the Abasiid from Oman in 751 AD...perhaps by 100 years.. but proving that is difficult.

Quote""The early Imamate in Oman arose out of a vision to create the true and ideal Muslim state. The first Ibadhi Imam, Julanda bin Mas'ud, was elected in 751 AD but he died in battle and it was not until 801 AD after a period of turmoil that Warith bin Kaab was elected. There then followed a period of peace, stability and prosperity lasting more than three hundred years".Unquote. The Omani people were converted following a letter delivered in 650 AD and it would make sense that if they were to fight for Islamic inclusion that a weapon with which to combat the invaders would be Iconic and thus I propose that this is a sword from that collection..or close to it.

As the name suggests Sayf Yamaani may be an early sword from the Hadramaut... further indication that a religious weapon from there was issued...and copied. This is not to suggest that all these swords are of that age... but that they continued to be produced perhaps in the famous iron foundry production around Nizwa.

The dates mentioned on the web are scattered all over the calendar from 1000 AD ...to the 19th C. The provenance on most is vague... and some try the Portuguese angle whilst others have different opinions... Iranian...etc

The difficulty arises in the fact that weapons were not buried with the dead in Islam although oddly one was dug up dating to about 18th or 19th C recently...

The Arts of the Muslim Knights gets it nearer reality at 1000 AD but that is not a proven birth date and an earlier date is just as likely, as I say, predating the 751AD Ibn Julanda situation..and pushes the weapon into range as one of the styles of Swords of The Prophet.

http://sword-site.com/thread/258/14th-century-islamic-sword-kattara States OF A SOLD ITEM ~

Quote"Extremely rare antique Islamic Arab sword Kattara. Another similar Kattara sword is in the collection of the Furusiyya Art Foundation, this collection possesses very important Islamic Arms and Armour material, as described in the book-catalogue by the foundation, such important items are not to be found in other collections or museums. The title of this splendid book - catalog is, The Arts of the Muslim Knight – The Furusiyya Art Foundation Collection Concept and direction by Bashir Mohamed Printed and bound in Italy, First edition. Furthermore, the sword which we are proudly offering for sale is in an untouched condition with the Islamic calligraphic script, which the sword in The Furusiyya Art Foundation Collection does not have, so making this sword a real gem in any important collection of antique arms and armour or Islamic Art. REFERENSES: According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113. The shape of the hilt became traditional in much of the Islamic world and can be seen for example in Nasrid swords of the 15th century, although this example has simple tubes in place of the dragon head quillons, it is probable that all ultimately derive from the sword of the Prophet. Since a sword was an expensive weapon and in the Islamic country the quality and the function of the sword was more important than the style or fashion, some types of swords continued to be popular for a century, for example the Persian Shamshir or Indian Talwar were used for a few hundred years and were passed from father to son and were used by the next generations, hence swords made earlier were still used after hundreds of years. DETAILS: An iron hilt with an octagonal grip attached to the tang by two rivets and a hole for the wrist strap with an octagonal peaked conical pommel showing remnants of silver inlay, the cross guard block is shoulder – shaped with down turned quillons. The blade is straight and is double-edged and has a cuff around its top, as most of these types of swords, and is decorated on the forte with a round medallion containing Arabic inscription. . REFERENSES:Askeri Museum Istanbul Turkey.inv.nos.2382 and 7620; for the latter see Alexandr 1985,no75 and Fig.4;other examples include Topkapi Sarayi Museum ,Istanbul,no1/2765;Wallace Collection, London England ,no1796;The Metropolitan Museum of Art,New York,no1987.43;and Splendeur des armes orientales 1988,no11 and Elgood, 1994,nos 2.13 and 2.15..MEASUREMENTS: The overall length is 87.7 cm (34 ½ in). Width of the blade at the widest point: 5.4 cm (2 1/16 inches)".Unquote

Source: www.trocadero.com/101antiques/items/747179/item747179.html

What the passage omits is that this is as far as I know the only stamped blade which may be Nizwa... I cannot read it. There are several Museum copies I know of including the Topkapi Askeri Museum and Al Ain Museum with a silvered hilt...(this weapon was awarded the Royal Hilt treatment in the reign of Saiid the Great the same hilt more or less as the Royal Khjanjar)and the TRM in Quwait; the Tareq Rajeb Museum that has one from me about 2 decades ago.

What I like about the picture below described above is the zig zag line at the base of the Hilt which almost forms a rectangle and the third hole near the pommel that was probably for the wrist strap. The circular stamp is very interesting.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

More. The right hand sword is the same as #82... Silvered up Iconised with the Royal style... :shrug:

This weapon was used with the Terrs Shield.

[Gonzalo G]

Salaams Gonzalo G,
Whilst there may be some reflections from early Mamluke and even Sword of the Prophet similarity with the Spanish item I think it is only vaguely reminiscent however it is an excellent observation and I have included similar detail in the description below.

The origin of the jineta sword, or even most of the sword types from the muslim area in the Iberic Peninsula, are not "Spanish", but have their origin in North Africa or possibly the Middle East, not counting the very early purchases of swords to the Franks. The jineta sword type was carried into Spain by the Zenete or Zenata berbers from the nation (or "tribe", if you prefer this colonialistic denomination) of the Banu Marin. What concerns me, is the origin of this sword, characterized by the downcurved quillons, the pommel in the form of a dome and the broad blade with a fuller on the first half. Probably the hilt went to further elaboration in the Iberic Peninsula, as the quillons being elongated and their ends sometimes flattened to give space for adornments, and the pommels also being more elaborated. Eliminating those late ornaments, what remains is a fighting sword with a little more than a vague resemblance to your sword.

I don't think those muslim swords from the Iberic Peninsula have anything to do with the early Mamluk swords or the Sword of the Prophet (which one?). Before the Banu Marin, there were influences from the Almohades, and before them the Almoravids, who penetrated in this Peninsula by request of the muslim rulers over there. All of them connected with the Sahara Desert and its trade routes. The origins and development of many types of swords from North Africa and the Arab countries is something to be explored. I don't believe in the simplistic explanation of the "European influence" whenever is found a resemblance with Europe's types of swords, and though the cross-polinization among cultures is undoubtedly a fact, we actually don't know for certain the genealogy of these weapons.
Regards

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The origin of the jineta sword, or even most of the sword types from the muslim area in the Iberic Peninsula, are not "Spanish", but have their origin in North Africa or possibly the Middle East, not counting the very early purchases of swords to the Franks. The jineta sword type was carried into Spain by the Zenete or Zenata berbers from the nation (or "tribe", if you prefer this colonialistic denomination) of the Banu Marin. What concerns me, is the origin of this sword, characterized by the downcurved quillons, the pommel in the form of a dome and the broad blade with a fuller on the first half. Probably the hilt went to further elaboration in the Iberic Peninsula, as the quillons being elongated and their ends sometimes flattened to give space for adornments, and the pommels also being more elaborated. Eliminating those late ornaments, what remains is a fighting sword with a little more than a vague resemblance to your sword.

I don't think those muslim swords from the Iberic Peninsula have anything to do with the early Mamluk swords or the Sword of the Prophet (which one?). Before the Banu Marin, there were influences from the Almohades, and before them the Almoravids, who penetrated in this Peninsula by request of the muslim rulers over there. All of them connected with the Sahara Desert and its trade routes. The origins and development of many types of swords from North Africa and the Arab countries is something to be explored. I don't believe in the simplistic explanation of the "European influence" whenever is found a resemblance with Europe's types of swords, and though the cross-polinization among cultures is undoubtedly a fact, we actually don't know for certain the genealogy of these weapons.
Regards


I dont disagree ...nor do I agree since both sides used the same weapon; The Christians developing it after it had been used against them by the Moors. Thus I used the generic name Spanish and since they were produced in Toledo in addition.

I agree that these swords carry similarities to the Old Sayf Yamaani but that it may simply be coincidental. The link may be in the influence of Swords of The Prophet which I think numbered about 7... of which examples are at Topkapi Museum.

The Sayf Yamaani appears to predate the Jineta by a few hundred years.

I would like to see all the information on the Jineta brought into focus and with its own consolidated thread so a good look can be made of the weapon...

PLEASE SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6768&highlight=JINETA+SWORD which is I think our only Library reference on this weapon.

Perhaps you would like to take that on... Naturally I would be in full support and I am sure others would chip in...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gonzalo G]

Ok, I saw the link to that discussion. And your post, three years latter. And your post over there answer my question. I just tried to know what is your opinion on the possible relation of both types of swords, and not to bring all the information on the jineta sword.

The term "Spanish" is derivated from "Spain". And Spain didn't exist in that time (15th Century), as "India" didn't exist before the British. Only a conglomerate of rival christian kingdoms speaking different languages and, of course Al-Andalus, and after it, the muslim Emirates (the "Taifa") and lastly, the Emirate of Granada. Spain is not a territory, but a nation state. But this political matter is not important in this discussion, so thank you for your opinion on the subject of the swords.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ok, I saw the link to that discussion. And your post, three years latter. And your post over there answer my question. I just tried to know what is your opinion on the possible relation of both types of swords, and not to bring all the information on the jineta sword.

The term "Spanish" is derivated from "Spain". And Spain didn't exist in that time (15th Century), as "India" didn't exist before the British. Only a conglomerate of rival christian kingdoms speaking different languages and, of course Al-Andalus, and after it, the Muslim Emirates (the "Taifa") and lastly, the Emirate of Granada. Spain is not a territory, but a nation state. But this political matter is not important in this discussion, so thank you for your opinion on the subject of the swords.


Salaams, Perhaps I will open the thread on this weapon since we have hardly a page of detail on Library. The history of the region is very interesting not least the potential for discussion of Jinetas in this regard.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

I HAVE A BETTER IDEA ... WHY DONT WE CONTINUE THE EXISTING THREAD ...Its only about one page thus, I suggest expanding on this simply by bringing it on !! Here goes.... :shrug:

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

A few more pictures as a reminder of the Old Omani Battle Sword... The Sayf Yamaani. :shrug:

[ariel]

Ibrahiim,
We have seen these pictures before. They were posted right in this topic.
Perhaps, there is no need to re-post them.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Ibrahiim,
We have seen these pictures before. They were posted right in this topic.
Perhaps, there is no need to re-post them.

Well I can live with a bit of repetition as a form of pictorial memory jogger... :shrug: Perhaps you can find some more?

[S.Al-Anizi]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Dear Sir,

I would love to know how you connected this sword style to the 7th century AD with such determination.

Cheers!

[S.Al-Anizi]

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

Salaams S.Al-Anizi, You are absolutely right. I too have arrived at a dead stop regarding information on this weapon. Most of the museums with a Sayf Yamaani example are known to me but none seem to pinpoint its origins though I am sure the closest will be in Istanbul at the Topkapi... Being called Sayf Yamaani may point to a Hadramaut origin but nothing is proven. I have to say that the only detective work we have in our favour is one of logical assessment: We know it must be earlier than first thought and crude ideas that it was a Portuguese sword or that its origins were in the 17th C were of course nonsense. Reasoned write ups have placed the weapon in the region of 1000 AD... Quite how that has been arrived at "Out of the Blue" has not been explained but I believe the direction is correct but falls short.

The periods in Omani History that need to be considered are After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154....combined with the 751AD date of the defenders through initially Ibn Julanda.

Thinking logically there was no reason to have a battle sword (adopted until today) appear in those timeframes unless it was a hugely important weapon. The only crucible for the appearance of a sword of that nature with an Islamic Hilt as the nations adopted battle sword was with Ibn Julanda... thus it takes on the appearance of a very early Sword of The Prophet ... Pre dating it 250 years before the year 1000 AD in fact is nothing since after that it has marched on until today more than another 1000 years. Moreover if it was indeed the Iconic religious weapon that I suspect then it may well precede 750 AD and be more in line with about 650 A.D.

Regretably there are no swords to compare in the Umayyad period as none seem to exist...so that we appear wedged in between the Abassid period and about 1000 AD... No weapons were buried with bodies and no examples of such an early sword exists..:shrug:

We know that Saaid bin Sultan Iconized the hilt having it covered in silver like the Royal Khanjar in the 19th C and I have sketches of it on Sultan Bargash and a photo of it with The Ruler today. We also know that the Sayf Yamaani was used with the Omani Terrs shield and that this was the only battle Sword in the early era.

The words of the late Anthony North echo in the words he describes in Islamic Arms in his opening paragraph where he describes Islamic weapons as once accepted as effective so they hardly ever changed, thus, the vast timescale that the Sayf Yamaani continued to be made and used down the ages....and by no other warriors except the Omanis.

It is for these reasons that I suspect it was an Iconic Religious weapon( Ibaathi) and why it has stuck around for so long.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An interesting reference can be seen at http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/08/13/a-look-at-early-medieval-islamic-swords/

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On inspection of The Maqamat (Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri at

https://www.pinterest.com/mahboobee/islamic-period/?lp=true

I discovered in the manuscript artwork two instances of the straight sword with turned down quilons; One which is often quoted as being the sword Sayf Yamaani (with the two camels). The second picture also painted more than 1000 years ago shows the same style of weapon as the first ...

According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see the following research paper related generally to early Islamic swords~

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/viewFile/86/86

Note that the sword shown in the paper above and illustrated below is virtually identical to all the swords in the previous post. This is early 10thC ... and begs the question as to how long a sword needs to be in the public domain before it is Iconised with a place in the astrology charts.

Shown below;from the Suwar al-kawakib al-thabita of al-Sufi dated1009-10

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Straight Swords on Coins.

Here I place a possible direct link between early Islamic sword form and the Sayf Yamaani; comparing the sword on coins from the period illustrated which is the key timescale in the 7thC to which I suggest our sword is related...and went on to become the Ibaathi weapon of 751 AD with Ibn Julanda...of Oman.

Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan (Arabic: عبد الملك بن مروان‎‎ ‘Abd al-Malik ibn Marwān, 646 – 8 October 705)


was the 5th Umayyad caliph. He was born in Medina, Hejaz, Abd al-Malik was a well-educated man and capable ruler who was able to solve many political problems that impeded his rule. The 14th-century Muslim historian Ibn Khaldun stated that "`Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan is one of the greatest Arab and Muslim Caliphs. He followed in the footsteps of `Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Commander of the Believers, in regulating state affairs".

During his reign, all important records were translated into Arabic, and for the first time, a special currency for the Muslim world was minted, which led to war with the Byzantine Empire under Justinian II. The Byzantines were led by Leontios at the Battle of Sebastopolis in 692 in Asia Minor and were decisively defeated by al-Malik after the defection of a large contingent of Slavs. The Islamic currency was then made the only currency of exchange in the Muslim world. Also, many reforms happened in his time relating to agriculture and commerce. Al-Malik extended and consolidated Muslim rule, made Arabic the state language and organised a regular postal service.

[Gonzalo G]

Interesting resemblance with a qattara in Mozarab-Spanish illustrations.

92a-b) Illustrations of ‘Sword of St. Peter’ and ‘Guards at the Holy Sepulche’ in the Avila Bible, Mozarab-Spanish 12-13 cent AD (Biblioteca Nacional, Ms. ER8, Madrid). 93) Carving of ‘St. James’, Spanish 12-13 cent AD (in situ Church of Santiago, Betanzos, La Coruña).

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Interesting resemblance with a qattara in Mozarab-Spanish illustrations.

92a-b) Illustrations of ‘Sword of St. Peter’ and ‘Guards at the Holy Sepulche’ in the Avila Bible, Mozarab-Spanish 12-13 cent AD (Biblioteca Nacional, Ms. ER8, Madrid). 93) Carving of ‘St. James’, Spanish 12-13 cent AD (in situ Church of Santiago, Betanzos, La Coruña).

Salaams Gonzalo, I was watching the Jinetta thread and wondering about those sketches with the broadsword and turned down quilons. Well placed and food for thought especially with the artwork seen above from the astrology chart and the Makamat al Harriri. Well placed thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Gonzalo G]

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salam aleikum, Ibrahiim.
I believe that your sword and the jineta have a common ancestry in the "classic" muslim sword.

Regards


Salaams Gonzalo G ~ Whilst no one would disagree that there are subtle similarities and shades of partial mirroring there is no direct technical form or construction inherent in both that could be construed as deliberate technical transfer... so what are the similarities? ... remembering that we have virtually no examples of the original Jinetta to compare with. So we are comparing the Sayf Yamaani with the highly ornate precious metal and decidedly aristocratic VIP version whilst trying to imagine what a Jinetta battle sword should look like... Not easy. In addition no one has a clue as to where the Berber version came from.

Where I do agree that the Jinetta had down turned quillons it has to be said that so did a lot of weapons in that culture broadly. It can be said that both swords would have been worn on a Baldric over the shoulder. This can be said about all Islamic swords and going back to Swords of The Prophet where it is known that this was the preferred way it was worn....and it is how the Sayf Yamaani was carried and I believe how the Jinetta was carried and how that also seems to have developed with a saddle baldric in addition.

Nevertheless I do generally agree that similarities are present in both these concepts and I look forward to seeing more evidence in that regard..and I support the general idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Back to basics. What are the implications in sword hilt design on the Sayf Yamaani?

1. Dealing with the Quilons. My view is that these follow the basic concept of a moon shape simply constructed. Many pieces of Omani silver jewelery follow the same idea from necklaces to ear rings, half bangles, and danglers.. Silver Jewelery invokes the idea of The Moon. Gold is for the Sun. I place below the full hilt of the Sayf Yamaani and next to it a jade hilt from another region .. showing the moon phase....and dragon head finials. In addition a few examples of moon shaped Omani Silver to compare.

2. The hand grip. This grip is not tubular but octagonal and well worn. It illustrates the Minaret form.

3. The Pommel looks like the top part of the Minaret from which emanates the call to prayer. It is multi sided often 6 or 8 sides...and sometimes decorated in simple silver script.

The emphasis is on simplicity of Islamic design in keeping with Ibaathi principles. Staunch without over decoration but simple and pious. This provides part of the final bridge between 1000 AD and almost 4 centuries before that when I posit the Sayf Yamaani originally appeared in the same configuration... and remained the same until the 19th C.

For this reason I suggest the sword is Iconic with the Ibaathi concept and was accepted in about 650 AD in the same way as Swords of The Prophet were instrumental in other regions.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

There are good reasons to refloat this thread since the historical record seems to be warming up in this regard...In my view although this hangs by a thread(scuse pun) the placement of 1000 AD seems to me hasty regarding the Sayf Yemaani...since it cannot be seen from whom this arrived or was developed it being too late as an Ibaathi sword and unrelated to Persian Islamic style. In the same vein an Ibaathi weapon cannot have been reflected back as a Abbasiid weapon since religion was a one way street as far as design was concerned. For example Islamic weapons were not transferred to Hindu soldiers and the same the other way... It couldn't happen. The Abassid fought the Ibaathi and no quarter was given... They could hardly have adopted the enemys weaponry in this regard. If the weapon was indeed a Sword of the Prophet...specifically The Ibaathi Weapon then it would have been there at the beginning with Ibn Julanda… just after 750 but may have been there before by a few years and I would say 632AD.

To remind readers this Sword is the epitome of Islamic weapons since it is still around today having been Iconized in the early 19thC in the Reign of Saaid Sultan who ruled Oman 1804 to 1856. The present ruler is seen at p69 with his Iconized Sayf Yemaani.

The weapon is suspected as being painted onto miniature manuscript at Les Maqâmât d' Aboû Moḥammad al-Qâsim ibn ʿAlî al-Ḥarîrî 1201-1300 and seen at 98 and other posts above.

A peculiar incident by a Captain Roe in the 17th C has a weapon being supposedly dug from a grave on Jebel Akhdar in Oman near Nizwa but it was not the way bodies were normally buried in Islamic tradition usually without any artefacts or weapons.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Sayf Yamaani .

I wondered if anyone had seen anything older in reference to the weapon style being hunted down ...The style similar to the above al Harriri depictions at post 98 of about a thousand years ago like for example shown clearly on the battle scene below… probably a reconnaissance group on the hoof at the battle of Badr in 624 CE. :shrug:


The Muslim warrior on the right of the mounted group has his sword in the traditional high mount on a sling at the shoulder or neck. It appears to be a straight bladed weapon but on inspection under magnification the hilt is a bulbous pommel and seems to be Sayf Yamaani in form.

This infers that the weapon style was in common use and would have accompanied delegations spreading the religion to wider regions and entirely underpins its transition as The Ibaathi Sword of Oman where it must have entered the historical record in Oman in 751AD with their leader Ibn Julanda etc etc

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This Sayf Yamaani has resurfaced from the client who procured it here many years ago and it is now in Australia. :shrug:

I occasionally see these hilts with a zig zag decoration as shown accompanied by a couple of parallel lines simply placed below. The hilt showing under the leather grip is hexagonal and of two parts riveted through a wooden core. :shrug:

The Example in The Al Ain Museum is shown to compare the zig zag on the hilt and to note a possible use of decorative anchor points for adornment in this case two silver studs....often empty.