barrels with tube fastening in 1470-80

[Spiridonov]

This question for Michael. Hello, Michael. I wish to ask you. Do you have photos of handgonnes with tube fastening on a simple stick for 1470-80 with the sizes (calibre, lengtn...) and the description (marks, matireal...)? For example, whether here of this kind (1, 2, 3, 4). Do you have information about this barrels (5)? Is the stoks original or not? What is the date of this? Still I wish to ask, how is frequent barrels of this types was painted? Sorry - too many questions :)

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

For photos of tiller/stick guns of the mid to the 2nd half of the 15th century, please go to

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8461.

The barrel of the first gun in my thread, ca. 1450, is of wrought iron, the one of the second (ca. 1500) of copper alloy (brass or bronze). The socket of the first retains remains of the original tiller stock while this is preserved completely on the second gun.
I will post the measurements and data soon.

The watercolors nos. 1-4 in your thread are taken from a codex of ca. 1480 preserved in the collections of the Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg, and illuminated by an anonymous artist known as Meister des Hausbuchs (Master of the housebook).

Your photo no. 5 shows some of a large number of haquebuts with wrought iron barrels, ca. 1460-1500, mostly of Nuremberg and Bohemian make, all preserved at the Západoceské Muzeum Pilsen, Czechia. Some of their stocks are original while others seem to be later reconstructions. Unfortunately this is hard to determine nowadays because, after left in virtually untouched and perfectly patinated condition for hundreds of years, all of the Pilsen guns were exposed to heavy 'restoration' measures in the 1980's, often with extremely sad results for the pieces, especially the stocks. E.g., large pieces of felt were nailed to the rear flat ends of the buttstocks, a rather 'ingenious' method indeed of preventing them from 'damage'. All the wooden surfaces were crudely smoothened and varnished thickly. As I said, the outcome is very sad and - what is even worse - irreversible and it is really hard to tell what is old and what is new, and it is absolutely impossible to tell what they looked like orginally.
Just for the sake of completeness let me add that the iron parts had been acid cleaned.

I went here with so much enthusiasm to see one of the oldest preserved collections in the world, and then my eyes almost filled up with tears.

As to the question of painting of late 15th century stocks, this cannot be answered by just yes or no. From my experience I should say that most stocks were just left untreated while others were varnished and some even painted polychromatic including decorative symbols such as floral patterns and even coats-of-arms. The wood used for the stocks of heavy pieces was mostly oak, sometimes ash, but I have also seen fir and beech now and then.

I tried to give a few highly unusual examples of painted Gothic stocks in former threads.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

I was meaning not painting of stocks but painting of barrels :)

I will post the measurements and data soon.

Thanks, I will be wait. :)

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

Please accept my heartfelt excuses for letting you wait so long! :shrug: :o
Here are the answers to your qestions concerning the measurement data of my two tiller guns.

The measurements of the bronze barrel tiller (stick) gun formerly in my collection, late 15th century, are:
overall length 146.8 cm, barrel 56.6 cm, caliber 13 mm (measured about one inch back of the bell shaped muzzle opening widened for easier loading).

The data of my wrought iron barrel, with remains of its original tiller stock preserved in the socket, ca. 1450-60, are:
overall length 72.7 cm, barrel 56.1 cm, caliber at the widened muzzle 20 mm, narrowing to ca. 16 mm after about one inch (see above).

Best wishes,
Michael

[Matchlock]

I was meaning not painting of stocks but painting of barrels :)

Thanks, I will be wait. :)


Hi Alexander,

In my experience iron barrels were quite often painted red with minium (red lead) in the Gothic era; this was most probably an anti corrosive measure as well as it may have expressed the general appreciation of the color red in that period of time.

Although such varnishes have mostly gone from the rusty iron surfaces in the course of the centuries small remains can often still be found in protected areas. Longer barrels of heavier pieces seem to have been painted more often than smaller ones; e.g., I hardly know of any painted little barrel (ca. 15-30 cm) that may have originally been part of a hand cannon.

Best wishes,
Michael

[fernando]

Oh, one day, when i am grown up and well behaved, i shall have one of these.
Sigh :shrug: .
Fernando

.

[Spiridonov]

Hello Michael! Thanks for very useful and valuable information. I am very grateful for the help

[Spiridonov]

does anybody know calibre and length of arquebuse №5?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51980&stc=1

[Matchlock]

does anybody know calibre and length of arquebuse №5?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=51980&stc=1


Hi Alexander,

Thanks to the thoroughness of the Austrian Lieutenant Major Paul Sixl, who took all the photos you have been quoting and also noted the measurements of all these guns which were published in the Zeitschrift für Historische Waffenkunde, vol. 2, 1900-02, pp. 264ff., I can tell you that the wrought iron haquebut barrel no. 5 has an overall length including the socket of 99.8 cm while the barrel itself has a bore length of 79.7 cm and a caliber of 26 mm; the piece weighs 15.4 kg.

Telling by the place of your red number 5 which indeed marks the first in line barrel of the group, though, I am not quite sure whether you really meant that first barrel (which actually is no. 1 in Sixl's article).:shrug:

Best wishes :) ,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank you! But i had mean this barrel (look at attachment) :-) but i interesting in other barrels from Sixl's article too :-) Especially i interesting in quality foto of stock of this arquebuse.

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

If you allow some time I will post all 18 haquebuts prerserved in the Západocéske Musezeum Pilsen, together with the photos and all their relevant measurements and data. Please keep in mind that all I have is these more than 100 year old b&w photos taken by Sixl. 17 of these 18 haquebuts seemingly retain their original stocks and one of them even a primitve snap tinderlock. When I was at the Pilsen Muzeum in 2000 the curator was unfortunately not able to find that one. I can't really blame him because you should see the astounding masses of more than 250 firearms before ca. 1530, all displayed on trestles and with very little space in between. Sadly enough, many of them are displayed with the touch hole (and in this case the lock!) facing the walls - and they are fixed in their position with iron bands!

As Sixl's article is in German I am not quite sure how to do it. In fact I know too little about computers to be able and scan Sixl's tabulated list and translate the German text into English. I have to as ask around a bit how to get the translations into the table elements. But you will live to see it, no doubt.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Mama mia :eek:
What a display!
Fernando

[Spiridonov]

Hi, Michael! So I see, what you have no sizes of this barrel?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1
p/s
Thanks for great fotos :)

[Matchlock]

Hi, Michael! So I see, what you have no sizes of this barrel?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1
p/s
Thanks for great fotos :)

Oh yes, I have, :)

and I will post them together with the the measurements of the other Pilsen pieces, so please be patient!

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Michael, can You make canning without transate? Only scanning. If health certainly allows. If it is heavy for you because of a sick back then do not do it

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

These are the measurements of the group of seven tiller guns marked 5 by you according to Sixl, ZHWK, 1900-02, p. 264 ff.


Length of barrel in cm; weight in kg; caliber in mm; top to bottom:

1. 94.6; 13.7; 21;

2. 84.6; 12.3; 21;

3. 91.8; 12.8; 21;

4. 88; 14.9; 24;

5. 99.8; 15.4; 26;

6. 90; 11.9; 22;

7. 96; 13.1; 26.



Simple scanning was not possible vor various reasons, moreover the text is in German and there are misprints in Sixl's table.

Please note that Sixl did not give the length of the stocks as he was not sure about their being the original.

I do hope this will help you along.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thanks biggest! These is a very valuable data. Does the length specified together with the plug (tube) or not? else i whant to ask: Have this barrel chamber or not?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52612&stc=1
Else as this handgonne is in your collection I wish to ask you. May i make a replica of this?

[Spiridonov]

Michel do you have data fof full table?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=48390&stc=1

[Matchlock]

Sixl's measurements of the barrel lengths do include the tubular sockets. What you call a chamber, i.e. the breech originally receiving the powder and ball, is covered in any case.

My scanner is out of order at the moment but as soon as it is back at work I will publish a scan of all those data.
Dont' expect too much of them though, they are extremely bewildering, even to an expert, and I am afraid I might be of very little help to you ...

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Data which you have given correspond to numbers at the left or to an arrangement of burrels from top to a bottom? There can be misunderstanding of that when I mounted this photo I have broken an arrangement of burrels and numbering. Sorry for my stupid qestions
:)

[Spiridonov]

What you call a chamber, i.e. the breech originally receiving the powder and ball, is covered in any case.
I had mean a narrowing inside of barrel from your collection. Had it narrowing?

[Matchlock]

I had mean a narrowing inside of barrel from your collection. Had it narrowing?


Just very slightly.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Data which you have given correspond to numbers at the left or to an arrangement of burrels from top to a bottom? There can be misunderstanding of that when I mounted this photo I have broken an arrangement of burrels and numbering. Sorry for my stupid qestions
:)


Don't worry, there really should be no misunderstanding whatsoever. The numbers in the text do correspond to the barrels (whose numbers can be identified) from top to bottom, just as they are illustrated in Sixl's article.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

at this picture http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56825&stc=1
this barrel http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1 have number 5
but it have number 7 at this picture
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=48390&stc=1
have this barrel http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1
this parametras 99.8; 15.4; 26;
or this 96; 13.1; 26
It is a very important becaese i want to make a replica of this. And every millimeter is very impotant
p.s.
Thanks for the help. I apologise for too many questions. Excuse me

[Spiridonov]

I have made 3D model of barrel which was most interesting for me:

[Spiridonov]

http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-galleries/old-guns-in-a-new-world/case-5-the-handcannon-the-matchlock/medieval-hand-cannon,-ca-1350.aspx#
I think that this barrel is about 1480-90 years. Looks like barrels from Pilsen and Vienna. Please, look at the mark which is a hammer. I have seen similar mark on the barrels from museums of Vienna (Heeresgeschichtliches museum and Rustkammer). Who was the owner of this mark? :confused:

[Spiridonov]

3 beautiful barrel from Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Wienna. They all made from bronze. Length of upper barrel is about 575 mm. Calibre is about 15 mm. I don't know exactly because i have put my scale through the glass.
Michael, Do You know parameters of he upper handgonne?
p/s it looks like barrels from Bulgaria.

[Spiridonov]

else

[Spiridonov]

Barrels from one of Bulgariains museums.

[Matchlock]

http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-galleries/old-guns-in-a-new-world/case-5-the-handcannon-the-matchlock/medieval-hand-cannon,-ca-1350.aspx#
I think that this barrel is about 1480-90 years. Looks like barrels from Pilsen and Vienna. Please, look at the mark which is a hammer. I have seen similar mark on the barrels from museums of Vienna (Heeresgeschichtliches museum and Rustkammer). Who was the owner of this mark? :confused:

Hi Alexander,

You are absolutetly right in assuming that the date given for this tiller haquebut by the NRA National Firearms Museum in Fairfax, Va., is far from being correct. 'Ca. 1350' is just ridiculous.

This mark, a goatsfoot hammer, is the personal mark of the famos barrelsmith Sebald Pögl the Elder, Thörl, Styria. Between 1498 and 1506, Pögl furnished 9,950 (!!!) haquebuts for the armories of the Emperor Maximilian I, so 'ca. 1500' would be the correct date for this piece.

Other haquebuts with Pögl's mark are preserved in the Vienna Hofburg and the Landeszeughaus Graz, Styria.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

3 beautiful barrel from Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Wienna. They all made from bronze. Length of upper barrel is about 575 mm. Calibre is about 15 mm. I don't know exactly because i have put my scale through the glass.
Michael, Do You know parameters of he upper handgonne?
p/s it looks like barrels from Bulgaria.


Hi Alexander,

I sadly do not have the measurements of these haquebuts in Vienna but I can tell you that all of them can be dated to the late 15th c. up to ca. 1500, and that all were Austrian, mostly Styrian productions made by barrelsmiths like Sebald Pögl, who also furnished pieces for other armories, e.g. those in Bulgaria and Czechia. That's why they look so similar. ;)

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank You, Michael. Some barrels from Pilsen looks like barrel from the NRA. Can we assume that all barrel of this type is about 1500 year or some barrel from Pilsen collection is earlier?

[Matchlock]

at this picture http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56825&stc=1
this barrel http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1 have number 5
but it have number 7 at this picture
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=48390&stc=1
have this barrel http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=52722&stc=1
this parametras 99.8; 15.4; 26;
or this 96; 13.1; 26
It is a very important becaese i want to make a replica of this. And every millimeter is very impotant
p.s.
Thanks for the help. I apologise for too many questions. Excuse me


Hi Alexander,

I looked up the haquebut in question in the Zeitschrift für Historische Waffenkunde, vol. 2, 1900-02, p. 264, and Sixl identifies this piece no. 7 with the following measurements:

weight 13.1 kg
materials wrought iron and oak
length of barrel including socket 96 cm
length of bore 79.1 cm
cal. 26 mm
touchhole four-sided, on right hand side
hook moveable, 10 cm rear of muzzle

Interesting enough, Sixl did not mention the length of the tiller stock but this will be easy for you to find out by the relations of the whole gun.

Have fun!,
and best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Thank You, Michael. Some barrels from Pilsen looks like barrel from the NRA. Can we assume that all barrel of this type is about 1500 year or some barrel from Pilsen collection is earlier?


Hi Alexander,

This type of barrel is of basic latest Gothic form and can be generally attributed to the 'late 15th c.', which means ca. 1480-90. Admittedly it is rather unusual to be found as late as the early 16th c. like in the case of Pögl's haquebuts but Pögl by then was already an old man and worked together with his son, so he seems to have continued the oldfashioned style.

In other words: wouldn't we know Pögl's mark and working life dates, I too would assign his haquebuts to 'ca. 1480-90'. :rolleyes:

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Michael, I am grateful to you. I should have to call You my teacher because a lot of my knowledges about early firearms was given to me by You :D
Danke

[Matchlock]

Spasiba, Alexander,

Go on working and studying like this and you soon will surpass your teacher! :cool: :eek:

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

The beautiful bronze handgonne from Göteborg
http://carlotta.gotlib.goteborg.se/pls/carlotta/VisaObjekt?pin_objMasidn=35125
I think it late 15 century (the front side of the muzzle let us to suggest it)

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander the Great ;) :cool: :eek: ,

Another great and astonishing find, thank you very much for sharing!

I think your dating is exactly right, and post the photoshopped (though low-rez) pics.

Thanks again,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

It seems that hook has been broken. Look at the Berns chronics. We can see the muzzle neb of absoulutly similar shape.
Michael, i remember that You discussed barrel that looks like this cut in half :D
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12091&highlight
But I think that it is not early 15 century. I guess it much later
By the way this museum is not so far from Saint-Petersberg. So, It is possibly that I will visit this museum to make some photos of this handgonne

[Matchlock]

:D
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12091&highlight
But I think that it is not early 15 century. I guess it much later


Now that you beat me at my own game ( :shrug: :rolleyes: ) I have to admit you were right: that curious double barrel haquebut actually should be dated 'late 15th c.' as well!

Thank you so much again, and of course additional images would be great if you could take them!

And as to the hook, I of course agree it was either cut of broken off.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

The barrel of absolutely similar type ( handgonne from Kalmar (Sweden))
http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=315308
http://catview.historiska.se/catview/media/highres/48315
http://catview.historiska.se/catview/media/highres/103066

[Spiridonov]

absolutely unique barrel (I have never seen this type before)
http://carl.kulturen.com/pls/carlotta/rigby.VisaObjekt?pin_masidn=45820

[fernando]

absolutely unique barrel (I have never seen this type before)...

Ah, the type of cannon i would like so much to have :shrug: .


-

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

The shape of this mid-15th c. tiller barrel without showing an accentuated, reinforced breech is highy unusual indeed. There is another, similar though preserved in the famous Princely collection at Konopiste Castle, Czechia: tiller stock missing, barrel ca. 1450, length 49.5 mm, cal. 39 mm!

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

Thank You for sharing! Have it chamber or not?

[Matchlock]

I marked the touchhole which markes the beginning of the breech (powder chamber); behind it is the tiller socket (now empty).

m

[Spiridonov]

I marked the touchhole which markes the beginning of the breech (powder chamber); behind it is the tiller socket (now empty).

m
I mean chamber tapering inside of barrel (Like on Tannenberg handgonne). This barrel both was made with very high quality and have a very thin sids. We can see similar barrels on this Spanish tapestry
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=69714&stc=1
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13590&highlight=tapestry

[fernando]

... We can see similar barrels on this Spanish tapestry ...

You mean Portuguese :cool:

[Spiridonov]

You mean Portuguese :cool:
Of course, I'm sorry :D

[Matchlock]

[QUOTE=Spiridonov]I mean chamber tapering inside of barrel (Like on Tannenberg handgonne). [/QUOTE.

I think this should be actually called a bore narrowing behind a bell-mouthed or widened muzzle.

I have often found this with a lot of 15th c. barrels when exactly measured, e.g. with my own famous haquebut barrel dated 1481, which you yourself handled in my collection. I think it was just an easy method to simplify loading the gun, especially with any kind of shot.

Please ref.: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7107&highlight=haquebut+barrel+Munich+dated+1481

Anyway, youre doubtlessly right concering the unusually thinness at the bronze muzzle walls - that's really astounding, especially for bronze! Seems to have worked in a way, though ... :eek:


Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

I think this should be actually called a bore narrowing behind a bell-mouthed or widened muzzle.

Michael I mean not a bore narrowing but this part of barrel:

[Matchlock]

Hi Alexander,

I don't know whether this barrel has a narrowed bore at the breech but regarding its date I doubt it has.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

An unusually large (135 cm long) and heavy (ca. 15 kg) wrought iron tiller-socketed haquebut barrel, ca. 1490-1500, sold at the Dorotheum Vienna a few days ago. It fteched more than 9,300 euro.
On top of the end of the socket (tube) you can see the nail hole for fixing the (now missing) tiller. A bit further to the right, there is the touch hole on the right hand side.
As the later-added barrel loops and the hole in the hook indicate, it was alterated for a full stock during its working life, most probably in the 1520's, the Peasants' Wars. It must also have been then that a dove-tailed igniting pan was attached to the touch hole (now missing); the dovetail is still visible.

Best,
Michael

[Spiridonov]

http://www.handgonne.com/gonne_1a.html
Michael, I think that 14 is the wrong date. What do You think about this barrel? It dont't looks like european at all :confused:

[Matchlock]

It's of Chinese origin and probably 18th c., that's why it doesn't look European. There are many of these around on the market.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

It's of Chinese origin and probably 18th c., that's why it doesn't look European. There are many of these around on the market.

Best,
Michael

Oh ... i almost dared to say so myself, but prefered to wait for the master :cool:

[Swordfish]

A German bronze hackbut c.1470-1500. Lenght 780 mm,
Bore 20.5 mm Weight 11.8 kg

[Matchlock]

Good job, Swordfish,

Where is this barrel, which was originally fitted with a tiller stock and later alterated to full-stock, preserved?

Best,
Michael

[Swordfish]

Good job, Swordfish,

Where is this barrel, which was originally fitted with a tiller stock and later alterated to full-stock, preserved?

Best,
Michael

Unfortunately I don`t know what you mean. The Kronburg hackbut?

[Andi]

Here are two hackbuts from Sweden:

http://www.historiska.se/data/?foremal=123316
With remains of the wooden shaft. Found in Skåne in the region of Norra Åsum, this one is undated. Barrel 101 cm, calibre 19 mm

http://www.historiska.se/data/?foremal=115866
Found in Stockholm, dated to the late middle ages. Barrel 106 cm, calibre not mentioned.

[fernando]

Very nice :cool:

[Andi]

Two arquebuses, type dated to the 15th century and owned by the Schützengilde (marksmen gilde) of Woldegk, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Germany est. 1514. No 1 length of 858 mm caliber 22 mm, no 2 length 872 mm caliber 27 mm.

According to the literature both arquebuses were owned by the makrsmen guild since several hundred years and were still used as salute guns in the 1930s.

[Matchlock]

Hi Andi,

According to the clear formal and stylistic criteria that these two hackbut/haquebut barrels show (the one on top with octagonal rear section, long, slender and round mid section and long, octagonal muzzle section, the lower one round throughout but also divided in three stages), and backed up by the general Early-Renaissance stylistic three-stage feeling of their smith(s), they can be safely dated to ca. 1525-30.
Thus, they are no longer Gothic 15th c. specimen.

As they do not seem to have any pans attached to the touch-hole areas, the pans and covers are either missing (in which case traces of their former dovetailing must be seen) or are a highly unusual feature.


For more on such pieces and their dating criteria, please search my threads.


Best,
Michael

[Andi]

Hello Matchlock! Thanks for your info. Sorry that I posted them in the wrong thread - should we as the moderators or admins to move this replies to the suitable thread?

[Matchlock]

Hi Andi,

I photoshopped the picture of those two wrought iron haquebut barrels, which, in all probability, were made in Suhl/Thuringia, in about 1530.
However, they do not feature what Alexender called tube fastening, meaning rear sockets for a wooden tiller stock, as that way of stocking a barrel had been outdated by ca. 1500, at the latest.

Is this photo authored/copyrighted by you, or by the Schützengilde Woldegk?

Best,
Michael

[Andi]

Unfortunately I have no copyright on the image and no further infos on the pieces. I tried to contact the Schützengilde Woldegk and the mayor of the town Woldeg but received no reply till yet. :mad:

[Andi]

Good news regarding the both hackbuts of Woldegk.

I just received a phonecall of the curator of the local Mühlenmuseum in Woldegk who told me, that both barrel are still existing. One was requisitioned by Regional Museum in Neubrandenburg after WWII and kept during GDR-times. The other one was hidden by him until the 1990 and then passed to Regionalmusuem Neubrandenburgas a permanent loan. I can't wait to visit the Museum in Neubrandenburg.

[Spiridonov]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=78752&stc=1
Huvudliggare
beskrivning/anteckningar: KM 43044. Handkanon, brons, med skaft av trä; medeltida. Ink. för avkastningen av "Skånebokens fond". Ink. på auktion å fabr. H. Swanbergs vapensaml. i Eslöv d. 25.9.44. Kat. n:r 59
m/l: M
förvärvsomständigheter: Köp 195.00
förvärvad från: Fabrikör H. Swanberg Eslöv
samtidiga förvärv: 43044-43047
Presentationstext
Ur utställningskatalogen: Funnen i Åhus hamn. De tidigaste eldvapnen var av denna typ utan lås och kallades ofta för rör. Krutet tändes med en lunta via hålet ovanpå. Kanoner av denna typ användes på fästningsvallar och krävde två personer- en som tände på och en som siktade. Vissa av dessa kanoner hade en hake att hålla mot en mur, för att hindra rekylen, och kallades då hakebössor.
Beskrivning
Skaft av trä, pipa av brons.
Historik
Med i utställningen "Makt över liv" vapenutställning 2007-.;
Handkanonen sågs av H. Swanberg ffg då han var 8 år, den låg då på en vind i Åhus, hos en person vid namn Delin, (utan egentligt yrke, dog i tuberkulos). Svanberg brukade på somrarna besöka en i Åhus bosatt moster. Det berättades att kanonen hittats i Åhus hamn av en dykare mitt för slottet vid en fartygsundersökning. Lokförare Johansson, brukade köra vexelloket på Åhus station, död för några år sedan (samband med honom?).
Inhämtat av H. Svanberg per telefon den 13/1 1947 ( Av Ragnar Blomquist)
Material
brons; trä
Längd
122,6 cm [med träskaft]; 50 cm [utan träskaft]
Kaliber
45 mm
Vikt
7435 gr [?]

[Paddy T.]

3 beautiful barrel from Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Wienna. They all made from bronze. Length of upper barrel is about 575 mm. Calibre is about 15 mm. I don't know exactly because i have put my scale through the glass.
Michael, Do You know parameters of he upper handgonne?
p/s it looks like barrels from Bulgaria.


Hi Spiridonov,

These guns have been published in Wilfried Tittmanns PhD thesis (Bochum 2015, unfortunatelly it´s only in German). Following Tittmann the guns from your post are in fact arabian/ottoman weapons, so Bulgaria wasn´t the badest idea. :)

[Patrick O.]

I found this between a catch of fish in the noth sea outside de river thames

[Philip]

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?

[Marcus den toom]

I found this between a catch of fish in the noth sea outside de river thames

Hi Patrick,

Interesting piece, could you send me some more HD pictures please?
What is the bore diameter? Looks like a small caliber.
The threaded haft is something i never have seen before either. Very cool piece.

[fernando]

Marcus, are you determining that this is an actual cannon barrel ?

[Marcus den toom]

Marcus, are you determining that this is an actual cannon barrel ?

Could be Nando, though i wouldnt rule a candlestick out either. :)

Added:
Here is a picture of a 16th century candlestick. Take away the bottom and top..?

[Patrick O.]

Hi Patrick,

Interesting piece, could you send me some more HD pictures please?
What is the bore diameter? Looks like a small caliber.
The threaded haft is something i never have seen before either. Very cool piece.


Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

[Patrick O.]

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?


Hoi Philip
Thre is a small hole at the end the last part close to the thread
Is made from bronze i thinck
As far i can see it looks made in one piece
The last part above the thread is conical made

[Marcus den toom]

Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

Hi Patrick,

Could you show us a picture of the possible touchhole please?

[Patrick O.]

Interesting! Is there a touchhole drilled into one side of the barrel, at the rear, that connects with the bore? Any markings? How is the smaller-diameter "stem" in back attached -- does it look like a separate piece screwed in or brazed on, or does this thing look like it was cast in one piece? Finally, what kind of alloy do you think the metal is -- bronze, brass, or just copper?


Hoi Philip
Thre is a small hole at the end the last part close to the thread
Is made from bronze i thinck
As far i can see it looks made in one piece
The last part above the thread is conical made

[Patrick O.]

Hi Patrick,

Could you show us a picture of the possible touchhole please?

I hope you have something on the fotos

[fernando]

Looks like a touch hole indeed.

[Philip]

Hoi Marcus
The bore hole is 17 mm and on the end close to the thread ther is a small hole and inside as far i can see there are groves

Thank you, Patrick, for all the info you have given us so far. Now about those grooves -- how many and when you shine a light inside, do they look straight or spiraled? Can you tell approximately how deep each groove is?

When you stick a rod down the bore, does it go all the way to the touchhole? Or might there be something inside that plugs it up before then?