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Old 12th December 2015, 04:41 PM   #1
ALEX
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Default Ottoman Kard with Repurposed Yataghan Turkish Ribbon Blade

Here's an example of "tribal" Ottoman kard with what seems to be repurposed yataghan blade. the blade was likely damaged and re-fitted into kard at the time it was still in use. It has 6-twisted core Turkish Ribbon pattern, stylized cartouche and punched star-patterned symbols typical of Yataghan blades, and also three inscribed Arabic words/names. The handle is bone with brass studs, shell and coral inserts and ivory final. Similar handle decorations are found on Syrian shamshir handles of 19th C Ottoman period. so I think it could be of that area, or perhaps Balkan (Albanian?) Any comments are most welcome.
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Old 12th December 2015, 05:57 PM   #2
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a very nice example! I am trying to read, think the script was more complete than this but so far it makes no sense to me.
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Old 12th December 2015, 07:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX
The handle is bone with brass studs, shell and coral inserts and ivory final.
It looks like walrus ivory.
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Old 12th December 2015, 07:48 PM   #4
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Lotfy,
I agree, the words are likely an ineligible writing, in suite with the primitive cartouche imitation. One would expect better quality writing on relatively nice steel pattern. Usually these blades have 4-5 rows, this one is a bit more complex than average.

Estcrh,
There's dark marble-like patina on top surface - yes, walrus ivory it is.
Again, one would expect better writing on a knife with some ivory, as it used to be expensive material. perhaps there's some beauty in such mix

Also, re-hilting could have been done in Central Asia. See similar HERE

Last edited by ALEX; 12th December 2015 at 09:36 PM. Reason: adding some text
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Old 12th December 2015, 10:26 PM   #5
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I suspect the writing to be part of the names of the seven sleepers, which appear often on yataghans with Turkish ribbon blades. You can look for Zifir's translations in older threads and compare the script.

Very nice kard,

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Old 13th December 2015, 06:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX
Also, re-hilting could have been done in Central Asia. See similar HERE
Very similar.

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This heavy knife is a tribal, somewhat crude version of a KARD knife. Its origin is not precisely known but most probably some tribal Persian / Turkestan artifact. 14 inches long, heavy, single edge blade with a cylindrical grip made of layered discs of brass, black horn and bone, decorated with brass inserts. Bone pommel; and brass bolsters. Total length 18 inches. Very good condition. Minor pitted spots on the blade. Few brass inserts are missing. No scabbard. Very unusual and scarce of somewhat mysterious origin.
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Last edited by estcrh; 13th December 2015 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 13th December 2015, 10:23 AM   #7
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Perhaps these knives belonged to Turkmen (Turkomans), some tribes that live on the border with Turkey. It would be easy to explain the use of the Turkish blade.

http://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/large...damascus-blade
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Old 13th December 2015, 10:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahratt
Perhaps these knives belonged to Turkmen (Turkomans), some tribes that live on the border with Turkey. It would be easy to explain the use of the Turkish blade.

http://www.ashokaarts.com/shop/large...damascus-blade
Looks like a match.

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Large Turkmen or Uzbek kard dagger with wootz damascus blade
A large and heavy bladed Asian Dagger or knife of Persian 'Kard' type. The blade is of large proportions with a very thick spine which has a chiselled rib along it, the steel shows watering of a very fine wootz or 'damascus' type, the forte has chiselled flower decoration of persian style indicating that the blade was probably made in Iran. The hilt made from black horn and decorated with a large black of walrus ivory to the pommel, ivory and metal layering and inlaid studs contribute to a decorative appearance as often found on Persian, Asian and even Caucasian gunstocks. A most interesting dagger, retaining a leather sheath, age wear to areas of the blade and other parts. Early 19th century.
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Old 13th December 2015, 07:02 PM   #9
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There was in the past a discussion here in the forum about these daggers
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12299
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Old 13th December 2015, 07:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eftihis
There was in the past a discussion here in the forum about these daggers
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12299
With all of these examples it seems that type must have come from a particular region.
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Last edited by estcrh; 13th December 2015 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 13th December 2015, 08:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
With all of these examples it seems that type must have come from a particular region.
Turkmens live in northern Afghanistan. But in Afghanistan these knives are not found... I was told that they come from the border areas of Turkey and Syria. There, too, there are Turkmens.
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Old 13th December 2015, 08:47 PM   #12
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All of the blades look to be from different sources.
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Old 14th December 2015, 06:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
All of the blades look to be from different sources.
In my opinion this situation is indicative of the absence of developed forging Technology weapons. We can see something similar in Bukhara and Khiva Khanate of the 19th century, where most of the blades of shamshirs, daggers and knives were imported from Persia.

That is, in this case, in the absence of production of quality blades, for the manufacture of Turkmen kards, take any suitable blade, which fall into the hands of the master.
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Old 14th December 2015, 11:02 AM   #14
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Mahratt, I had similar thoughts (reply #11 above). You are right of course, there were 300,000 Turkmens living in Syria, most near Turkish border.
As we saw, these kards are often attributed to Persia, Turkmenistan or Afghanistan regions, with Turkmen tribal being closest fit. However, having no bolsters, the distinct blade mounting and Ottoman-like decorations, Syrian Turkmen origin is quite plausible. The metal rings and inlays on the handle are also reminiscent of another Syrian "Majdel Shams" hilts and shamshir hilts produced in Syria during Ottoman period.
Good discussion, thanks to all who responded!
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Old 14th December 2015, 12:18 PM   #15
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Arrow Another Example

Here is another example with the forte of a Persian shamshir being reformed into a kard blade.
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Old 14th December 2015, 12:49 PM   #16
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Lee, what an awesome kard!
Further shows the re-purposeful nature of this type, with many having blades from other weapons. What strikes me the most is similarity of handle/blade assembly. All have identical mounting technique with similar decoration elements. I am inclined to categorize it as Syrian-Turkmen Kard.
Once again, thanks to all for great contribution into what could be a fascinating discovery.
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