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Old 13th October 2021, 06:51 AM   #1
werdna
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Default Sudanese Dagger,grip translation

Hello,I posted a previous thread about a dagger I have,the post is named - Persian or Sudanese dagger
if you wish to view the full item
The blade is covered with Thuluth but I think that the grip is written in Arabic ?
I would appreciate any further information and/or a translation if possible or to know that it cannot be translated
thank you
Andrew Freeston
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:36 PM   #2
Edster
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Andrew,

I can't help with the translation. While the Thuluth is suggestive of blades available in Omdurman during the Mahdiya, the handle doesn't exhibit any Sudanese design motifs that I am aware of. Maybe of unknown types from Northern Sudan influenced by Nubian culture?? Maybe similar examples can be offered by others.

Edit: Just found a couple of examples like your handle style attributable to Mahdist Sudan. Often with triple daggers with croc. skin sheaths. Here's a link (but with a price. couldn't separate dagger from the price). Google images of thuluth daggers. Still, no info on what ethnic group/region produced them.

https://www.faganarms.com/products/s...mahdist-war-15

See this link too.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=262229

Best,
Ed

Last edited by Edster; 13th October 2021 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Found new data.
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Old 20th October 2021, 04:13 PM   #3
kwiatek
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The inscription is not clear, words run into each other etc. and it is incomplete.

The style of the inscription goes back to the Mamluks, though this does not necessarily mean that it is that old of course.

It looks like the following, but it is really a guess and should not be taken as definitive. I guess it is an extract from a poem

العلق(؟) لا الملطاء(؟) العمر لا

'A blood clot(?) rather than a penetrating wound(?), life rather than ..."
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Old 20th October 2021, 05:05 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiatek View Post
The inscription is not clear, words run into each other etc. and it is incomplete.

The style of the inscription goes back to the Mamluks, though this does not necessarily mean that it is that old of course.

It looks like the following, but it is really a guess and should not be taken as definitive. I guess it is an extract from a poem

العلق(؟) لا الملطاء(؟) العمر لا

'A blood clot(?) rather than a penetrating wound(?), life rather than ..."
I think most of the Sudanese inscriptions are indeed copied from Mamluk styling as their influence was notable in the regions of Sennar. The Mamluks had established there after fleeing from Egypt in 1517, and remained there as traders along with slaving. In 1821 they were overthrown but their influences remained profound.

It is my impression that the use of thuluth on the Mahdist blades derives from inscriptions on Mamluk metalwork, and the Sufi influences of course were strong throughout Sudan. These kinds of poetic phrases were well known in those contexts with metalwork.

That the inscriptions were not properly configured runs in line with the way the thuluth was usually applied, and often had to be worked into a set space. Thuluth inscriptions themselves, long thought to be illegible and simply decorative were actually Quranic phrases used in repitition as motif.
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