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Old 4th December 2020, 02:44 PM   #1
psingh123
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Default help with devangari inscription

hello forum members.

I need your assistance in deciphering this inscription, which I believe is devanagari. I have picked out a few words such as 'sri baldev ji sahai' and 'samvat'.

Is anyone able to assist with this? much appreciated! images are attached. there seems to be some date at the end? especially since 'samvat' is written before it...
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Old 4th December 2020, 05:19 PM   #2
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I can't help you with the translation however i've spotted a tulwar with identical koftgari work and similar characters, perhaps it could help you with translation?


Sorry i can't be of more use.
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Old 4th December 2020, 06:31 PM   #3
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Hi psingh.

Welcome to the forum. Would you please post a picture of the entire sword, as noted in the sticky at the top of this forum's page.

Ian.
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Old 6th December 2020, 02:29 PM   #4
Jens Nordlunde
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A friend in India has helped with translating the text.


Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan. Samvat is V.S. the Northern Hindu year.

The year looks crudely done (maybe a local variant of numerals) VS 1911 So this is around 1855 AD.
I have a tulwar from Alwar/Ulwar with a closely related text dated VS 1856 - 1799-1800 AD.

Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th December 2020 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 7th December 2020, 03:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
A friend in India has helped with translating the text.


Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan. Samvat is V.S. the Northern Hindu year.

The year looks crudely done (maybe a local variant of numerals) VS 1911 So this is around 1855 AD.
I have a tulwar from Alwar/Ulwar with a closely related text dated VS 1856 - 1799-1800 AD.
thats fantastic Jen! Might you know who Rup Singh Sangawat is? I also noticed 'sri baldevji sahay' is on a shield at the V&A which belonged to ram singh of kotah. So maybe its 'region'/rajput specific?
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Old 7th December 2020, 03:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Hi psingh.

Welcome to the forum. Would you please post a picture of the entire sword, as noted in the sticky at the top of this forum's page.

Ian.
Hi Ian, I will do! I'm currently taking them so I will post them as soon as I have finished editing them, etc.!
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Old 7th December 2020, 08:20 PM   #7
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Might you/anyone know who rup singh sangawat was?
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Old 8th December 2020, 10:01 AM   #8
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thanks jens! that is very helpful.

I will post pics of the full sword, just finishing them off, e.g. editing etc

anyone have an idea of who Rup Singh Sangawat might be?
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Old 3rd January 2021, 02:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psingh123
anyone have an idea of who Rup Singh Sangawat might be?
I'm afraid it doesn't matter. I don't think this sword belonged to him. There are handles that are very simply decorated, with poorly made inscriptions often with errors and missing characters. Such inscriptions always start with "Shri Baldev Ji Sahai" but what's next doesn't matter.
In the best case it is possible that such swords belonged to the rajah's servants or officers.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 04:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercenary
There are handles that are very simply decorated, with poorly made inscriptions often with errors and missing characters. Such inscriptions always start with "Shri Baldev Ji Sahai" but what's next doesn't matter.
In the best case it is possible that such swords belonged to the rajah's servants or officers.
Surely there are very poorly made hilts with spurious inscriptions, but this one looks very well made... at least from the photos we have.

So this definitely doesn't look like a servant sword hilt.

Last edited by mariusgmioc; 3rd January 2021 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 05:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Surely there are very poorly made hits with spurious inscriptions, but this one looks very well made... at least from the photos we have.

So this definitely doesn't look like a servant sword hilt.
In the case of the "owner's inscription" exactly in this place of hilt I only trust in such a sword of raja and an inscription (attached). I am talking about swords of 19th - 20th, when, apparently, such a fashion appeared. In Gold we trust.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercenary
I'm afraid it doesn't matter. I don't think this sword belonged to him.
Jens' translation clearly states that the sword DID NOT belong to Shri Baldevji.
See:
"Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan."
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Old 3rd January 2021, 10:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Jens' translation clearly states that the sword DID NOT belong to Shri Baldevji.
See:
"Shri Baldevji Sahay Rup Singh Sangawat Samb(v)at 1911.
Shri Baldevji is the Deva to whom obseience is paid. Rup Singh is obviously the ownern of the piece who belongs to the Sangawat Rajput clan."
Ariel, thanks for responding. I really went deep into the study of the religious culture of India, but I am still far from looking for the sword of Shri Baldev Ji.
I just wanted to point out that we need to be careful with such inscriptions on the hilt.
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Old 4th January 2021, 12:02 AM   #14
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Had it been inscribed with the name of Shah Jahan , we could have been rightfully skeptical.
But Rup Singh? Some functionary so minor, that nobody even knows his name or place on the totem pole?

I wouldn’t doubt his ownership of this sword or his subservient position to Sri Baldev Ji.

BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))
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Old 4th January 2021, 10:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Had it been inscribed with the name of Shah Jahan , we could have been rightfully skeptical.
But Rup Singh? Some functionary so minor, that nobody even knows his name or place on the totem pole?

I wouldn’t doubt his ownership of this sword or his subservient position to Sri Baldev Ji.

BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))

maybe baldev is referring to balarama? the older brother of krishna who was also referred to as baladeva?
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Old 4th January 2021, 11:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
BTW, who was this Sri Baldev Ji? :-)))
I apologize. It is not always written "Sri Baldev Ji" on such hilt. On the hilt from the post of Envodas it is written "Sri Baidyanath Ji". Very crudely and with mistakes. I do not believe that this was written by the court masters in the 19th century.

Baldev, Baidyanath ... are different representations of Shiva.
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