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Old 15th May 2024, 10:40 AM   #1
oariff
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Default Another Madura Keris?

Hi,

Can this be a random mlumah pamor - perhaps Wos Wutah?

Length of Blade - 42cm. Tip to base of ganja.

Were these types of islamic themed keris commonly produced for sale or mainly commissioned?

Cheers.
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Old 15th May 2024, 09:47 PM   #2
A. G. Maisey
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In what I can see, this pamor looks like the remnants of a pamor miring, but i cannot guess what it might have been made as from these photos, I alsi cannot name the pamor in the sorsoran from memory, to give a supportable opinion I would need this keris in hand, along with a decent reference book & a 3X loupe.

Keris dress with Islamic motifs can be both made to order or made as a stock item. It appears to have become much more popular in Indonesia, along with the rise of Islam in recent years.
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Old 15th May 2024, 10:29 PM   #3
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To me it looks like two twisted bars with low twist frequency on a side, divided by a Miring stripe, plus Puser.

As Alan said, remnants of Pamor, the structure of twisted bars still recognizable in a couple of places on Sorsoran or better, lower third of the blade.
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Old 16th May 2024, 04:55 AM   #4
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Agreed Gustav, the overall impression is as you state, however I cannot see sufficient detail in the photo to let me identify the grain orientation.

The little roundish thing in the sorsoran does not have a form I recognise, so I cannot name it.
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Old 16th May 2024, 08:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
Agreed Gustav, the overall impression is as you state, however I cannot see sufficient detail in the photo to let me identify the grain orientation.

The little roundish thing in the sorsoran does not have a form I recognise, so I cannot name it.
Thanks Alan and Gustav.

I hv enclosed 2 more pics that might or might not shed more details.

Cheers.
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Old 16th May 2024, 09:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
To me it looks like two twisted bars with low twist frequency on a side, divided by a Miring stripe, plus Puser.

As Alan said, remnants of Pamor, the structure of twisted bars still recognizable in a couple of places on Sorsoran or better, lower third of the blade.
I got a bit closer to the puser.
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Old 17th May 2024, 07:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
Agreed Gustav, the overall impression is as you state, however I cannot see sufficient detail in the photo to let me identify the grain orientation.

The little roundish thing in the sorsoran does not have a form I recognise, so I cannot name it.
I agree with Alan that this pamor, though similar to pamor puser, may be something a little different. All the pamor puser i have seen are a fairly standard spiral in a circular pattern. This pamor very specifically steps out of that pattern. Though i am not sure if it has a different name or intention.
I do like this blade very much. The wrongko seems to be nicely crafted, though not particularly a style i enjoy. I wonder is anyone is capable of translating the script, though it is very likely a verse from the Quran. The donoriko hilt is also nicely carved, but personally i find these appear too over done when they have the bulky selut attached. Over all a nice keris though.
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Old 17th May 2024, 08:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
Keris dress with Islamic motifs can be both made to order or made as a stock item. It appears to have become much more popular in Indonesia, along with the rise of Islam in recent years.
I have seen similar dresses around 2000 in Surabaya owned by a dealer of keris I was in contact with for years, all have been his personal keris and they weren't for sale, partly with good karmadikan blades and with Quran verse in gold on them.
He was a proud haji.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 17th May 2024, 08:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
The wrongko seems to be nicely crafted, though not particularly a style i enjoy. I wonder is anyone is capable of translating the script, though it is very likely a verse from the Quran. The donoriko hilt is also nicely carved, but personally i find these appear too over done when they have the bulky selut attached. Over all a nice keris though.
Hello David,

It's exactly the style (East-) Javanese and Madurese people value So far I know. This keris (dress) is made for a Madurese man and not for a Western collector! And the blade will be a pusaka.

Regards,
Detlef

Last edited by Sajen; 17th May 2024 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 17th May 2024, 10:03 PM   #10
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Oariff,

how this, let's call it Puser-like feature, looks on the other side of blade, if there is any?
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Old 18th May 2024, 10:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
I agree with Alan that this pamor, though similar to pamor puser, may be something a little different. All the pamor puser i have seen are a fairly standard spiral in a circular pattern. This pamor very specifically steps out of that pattern. Though i am not sure if it has a different name or intention.
I do like this blade very much. The wrongko seems to be nicely crafted, though not particularly a style i enjoy. I wonder is anyone is capable of translating the script, though it is very likely a verse from the Quran. The donoriko hilt is also nicely carved, but personally i find these appear too over done when they have the bulky selut attached. Over all a nice keris though.
Hi David,

On the top is Allah SWT and the longer ayat is Ayatul Kursi (The Throne Verse) from the Holy Quran.

Cheers.
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Old 18th May 2024, 03:00 PM   #12
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Hi David,

On the top is Allah SWT and the longer ayat is Ayatul Kursi (The Throne Verse) from the Holy Quran.

Cheers.
Thank's Omar. That is what i assumed, but i don't know the language.
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Old 18th May 2024, 03:06 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sajen View Post
Hello David,

It's exactly the style (East-) Javanese and Madurese people value So far I know. This keris (dress) is made for a Madurese man and not for a Western collector! And the blade will be a pusaka.

Regards,
Detlef
Thanks Detlef, but i wasn't questioning who this dress was created for, simply expressing a personal preference, especially in regards to this type of selut. We are allowed to express our preferences he, yes?
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Old 18th May 2024, 04:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Thanks Detlef, but i wasn't questioning who this dress was created for, simply expressing a personal preference, especially in regards to this type of selut. We are allowed to express our preferences he, yes?
Yes, of course David! It's also not my cup of tea.
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Old 18th May 2024, 07:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Oariff,

how this, let's call it Puser-like feature, looks on the other side of blade, if there is any?
Hi Gustav,

Doesn't look like there is one on the other side. There is however an Allah SWT inscription on the blade though.

Will this have been done when the keris was made or added on at a later stage?

What would be the tangguh for this keris?

Cheers.
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Old 19th May 2024, 08:22 AM   #16
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BTW;

the verse on the pendok ;ayat kursi ( verse of the throne 2: 255) is one of the most often recited by muslims in all sorts of occasions. It summarizes the majesty and power of God. Almost every muslim over the age of 10 years can recite this verse in arabic by heart.

Here is the translation of the verse (c n p)

Allah there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence.
Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth.
Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission?
He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not.
And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
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Old 19th May 2024, 12:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green View Post
BTW;

the verse on the pendok ;ayat kursi ( verse of the throne 2: 255) is one of the most often recited by muslims in all sorts of occasions. It summarizes the majesty and power of God. Almost every muslim over the age of 10 years can recite this verse in arabic by heart.

Here is the translation of the verse (c n p)

Allah there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence.
Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth.
Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission?
He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not.
And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
Hi Green,

You are absolutely right.

Cheers.
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