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Old 23rd January 2009, 12:42 PM   #1
Marcokeris
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Default The javanese kris

coming soon (....I hope)
http://www.jnj-studio.nl/vormgeving/.../groneman.html
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:54 PM   #2
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Default Der Kris der Javaner?

Dear Marco,

Thank you for the info on one of the best book on Javanese keris ever. Yes, I hope I should have a copy of that one. From the the title of the book, I think it is the same book as "Der Kris der Javaner" (Please see the cover of Indonesian version of "Der Kris der Javaner", but in Indonesian version/translation from German language publication).

According to the translator -- Mr Stanley Hendrawidjaja (an Indonesian engineer, keris lover, graduated from a German technical university) -- this book is a compilation of Mr Groneman's serial writings for Internationales Archif fur Etnographie, Band XIX, 1910, a scientifique publication at that time.

About Dr Isaac Groneman (1832-1912), Stanley wrote in the preface of his translation, that this doctor had stayed and worked in Yogyakarta since 1869, married to a noble personality -- grand grand grand daughter of King Hamengku Buwono I. The last days of his life, was spent in the Netherlands, writing several books on Javanese culture.

Really one of a comprehensive book I've read on Javanese keris, written by non-Indonesian writer. Of course, it has been much quoted by other writers on keris including Garret Solyom & Bronwen Solyom (The World of the Javanese Kris), Dr WH Rassers (On the Javanese Kris), Wolfgang Spielmann (Der javanische Keris) etc...

Hopefully this info is useful for you...

GANJAWULUNG
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Old 23rd January 2009, 02:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
I met Mr Zwartenkot of Art Books (The publisher of this book and also Zonneveld's book!) last Wednessday when I was visiting the Ethnographical museum of Leiden. He owns the booshop there!

He showed me the PDF files of the book and stated it is currently at the printers and he was expecting them soon!

It looked very good so I have confirmed my order (which I actually did already about a year ago I think....).

The price is 75 euro and the first print is only 500 pieces with a lot of people who have laready ordered one (like me)

The original Gronemann is too expensive I think....

This is indeed a translation from the old German into modern English with very nice photo's and drawings from Dutch musea and some private collections...

Regards, Erik
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Old 24th January 2009, 03:28 PM   #4
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The original Gronemann is too expensive I think....
As far as i know.. there is no original Dr Groneman book. He always preferd writing in magazines and sciencetific publications and newspapers. But he never printed or publisch a real Groneman book! Ing. Gerard Tammes, writer and publischer of The Kris 1,2 and 3 and De Kris in zijn Paranormale wereld, and founder of the Dutch Keris Study Group Also publised a book called De Krissen wereld van Dr.I.J. Groneman. Witch i have here at home. He did study all work of Groneman but never have found more than diffrent articles about keris and his days in Yogja, where he was the physician of het Sultan. This book i have here contains his work writen in German and Dutch. It contains the articles, Das schmeiden javanischer waffen 1, Der kris der Javaner, Der kris der Javaner die bekleidung des kris, Der kris der Javaner 2, Vordeingen der Pamor-smeedkunst, Het Njirami De jaarlijkse reiniging van de erfwapens en andere poesaka's in midden Java. And end with a copy of a hand writen text of Dr Groneman in dutch.. witch even for me as a dutch speaking person is very difficult to read. due to his handwriting..and i always thought my handwriting was difficult to read

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Old 24th January 2009, 07:58 PM   #5
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I stand corrected.

Heard about this book by Tammens, am trying to get a hold of it and might have located one. Is it a quite simple reproduced book?

Regards, Erik

Quote:
Originally Posted by kulbuntet
As far as i know.. there is no original Dr Groneman book. He always preferd writing in magazines and sciencetific publications and newspapers. But he never printed or publisch a real Groneman book! Ing. Gerard Tammes, writer and publischer of The Kris 1,2 and 3 and De Kris in zijn Paranormale wereld, and founder of the Dutch Keris Study Group Also publised a book called De Krissen wereld van Dr.I.J. Groneman. Witch i have here at home. He did study all work of Groneman but never have found more than diffrent articles about keris and his days in Yogja, where he was the physician of het Sultan. This book i have here contains his work writen in German and Dutch. It contains the articles, Das schmeiden javanischer waffen 1, Der kris der Javaner, Der kris der Javaner die bekleidung des kris, Der kris der Javaner 2, Vordeingen der Pamor-smeedkunst, Het Njirami De jaarlijkse reiniging van de erfwapens en andere poesaka's in midden Java. And end with a copy of a hand writen text of Dr Groneman in dutch.. witch even for me as a dutch speaking person is very difficult to read. due to his handwriting..and i always thought my handwriting was difficult to read
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Old 25th January 2009, 02:11 PM   #6
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Hi Erik,

Yes it is a simple book. Published in 1999 by Tammens him self. And probaly because of that reason it has no ISBN number..And due to that and the posebility of small number of print difficult to find. I was luck to see one on marktplaats.. you know the site. It is a book of 192 pages, soft cover front in green the back is white with text. On cover front there is in black a djogja keris standing on this tip on left side. and rightside the name of book and the name of tammens. from the style of the cover you would think the book is older than from 1999.

regards and much luck finding the book..
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Old 27th January 2009, 05:02 PM   #7
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I was indeed able to find Tammens book on Groneman and it is now on its way to me....


Quote:
Originally Posted by kulbuntet
Hi Erik,

Yes it is a simple book. Published in 1999 by Tammens him self. And probaly because of that reason it has no ISBN number..And due to that and the posebility of small number of print difficult to find. I was luck to see one on marktplaats.. you know the site. It is a book of 192 pages, soft cover front in green the back is white with text. On cover front there is in black a djogja keris standing on this tip on left side. and rightside the name of book and the name of tammens. from the style of the cover you would think the book is older than from 1999.

regards and much luck finding the book..
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Old 29th January 2009, 11:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by erikscollectables
I was indeed able to find Tammens book on Groneman and it is now on its way to me....
Congrats!! Every euro spend well, on this book!!
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Old 31st January 2009, 06:10 PM   #9
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It is here, the reading can begin....

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Congrats!! Every euro spend well, on this book!!
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Old 19th March 2009, 12:22 PM   #10
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other books...http://www.the-real-africa.com/ethnographicartbooks/
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Old 3rd April 2009, 09:59 AM   #11
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The Groneman book arrived yesterday in the mail.
It is a great book with really beautiful illustrations.
Worth every penny.

You can order it from the bookstore of the ethnographical museum of Leiden.
The owner of the bookstore is the publisher of the book.

http://www.ethnographicartbooks.com/

Regards, Erik

By the way I am not linked in any way to the bookstore/publisher I just like the book a lot!
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Old 3rd April 2009, 12:07 PM   #12
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Post The Javanese Kris

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikscollectables
The Groneman book arrived yesterday in the mail.
It is a great book with really beautiful illustrations.
Worth every penny.

You can order it from the bookstore of the ethnographical museum of Leiden.
The owner of the bookstore is the publisher of the book.

http://www.ethnographicartbooks.com/

Regards, Erik

By the way I am not linked in any way to the bookstore/publisher I just like the book a lot!

I totally agree with Erik. A magnificant book.
The original (German) text of Groneman already was a classic, now it is translated into English and there is very much added in this publication.
A great number of excellent photo's of keris, and numerous drawings from old Javanese manuscripts. Extensive and detailed information and feast for the eye. This is a book that will not easily be outclassed!
When I completely have read it (I also got my copy yesterday), I will write a review and post it here.

Albert van Zonneveld
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert
... When I completely have read it (I also got my copy yesterday), I will write a review and post it here.

Albert van Zonneveld
Will be waiting for the review.. mine is on the way. Likewise, I'll do the same..
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Old 7th April 2009, 08:31 AM   #14
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Earlier today I received my copy of "The Javanese Keris", and I have now completed reading of the text.

I will complete perusal of the illustrations and their captions before tomorrow.

I have waited a very long time to be able to read what Isaac Groneman wrote. My only comment is that this book contains matter with a high degree of historical interest for those of us who study the keris.

I am certain that a comparative study of material in this publication, with material from other sources, will prove to be most edifying for those who have the tenacity to carry out such a study.

It would be very easy to level criticism at some of the captions attached to illustrations, and at some sections of the text, however, I would caution against using too pedantic an approach to this publication:- to my way of thinking, its value lays in its provision of historical context, rather than in provision of information.

The preface and the introduction, both written by David van Duuren, bear reading several times.

The book itself is a very good quality production and contains many photographs of previously unpublished keris.

I recommend without reservation the acquisition of this book by all serious students of the keris.
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