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Old 2nd March 2020, 10:29 PM   #1
qusko
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Default Boyliya with Albanian lock

Adding images of long Balkan musket. Seems to be boyliya, but with Albanian lock. Barrel stamped with 'M' in crown.

Appreciate any suggestions about detailed origin.
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Old 4th March 2020, 09:02 PM   #2
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Hi Gusko

That is a very nice looking Balkan musket. I see a mixture of both Ottoman and Boyliya styling with this one. Which would not be too surprising.
Many attribute the Boyliya styling to Bulgaria. And I'm leaning more in that direction with with this gun due to it's decoration and metal sheathing towards the muzzle end of the stock.

The lock has to be one of the most utilized throughout the Balkan gun making centers. This style of miquelet lock seems to show up on all kinds of guns throughout the Empire. Almost every musket and pistol from Albania that I've seen uses this same Balkan lock. Ditto the Boyliyas. I can tell you from a shooter's experience that the lock works well and is very reliable. Must be the reason for it's wide spread use.

Anyway, neat gun. I really like it. Thanks for posting. Here is a close-up of your lock:

Rick
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Old 4th March 2020, 09:49 PM   #3
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Rick said everything. It's a mixture of Boyliya and tufek.
Very nice!
I' m very curious to know more about your barrel and the face on it...
Maybe you should post it on the European forum...
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Old 4th March 2020, 10:51 PM   #4
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Very nice gun Gusko.
I have a question about the sling rings.....one is on the left side opposite the lock, but the other (about half way along the barrel) is on the right. Is this normal or is one fitted the wrong way?
Stu
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Old 6th March 2020, 08:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Very nice gun Gusko.
I have a question about the sling rings.....one is on the left side opposite the lock, but the other (about half way along the barrel) is on the right. Is this normal or is one fitted the wrong way?
Stu
Hi Kubur,
I see that the Tanchika just posted also has the rings on opposite sides, but so that the 2 threads do not get mixed up, I have replied to you here.....
Hopefully Rick will address this issue..,..
Stu
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Old 6th March 2020, 11:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
Rick said everything. It's a mixture of Boyliya and tufek.
Very nice!
I' m very curious to know more about your barrel and the face on it...
Maybe you should post it on the European forum...
Hi Kubur, good idea. Let's see if someone can advise on the barrel in European forum
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Old 6th March 2020, 11:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahnjar1
Very nice gun Gusko.
I have a question about the sling rings.....one is on the left side opposite the lock, but the other (about half way along the barrel) is on the right. Is this normal or is one fitted the wrong way?
Stu
Dear Stu,

Adding one more picture for you with sling ring in the middle of barrel. You will see that bigger ring is on the same side as the one on the opposite side of the lock. I have some tanchika and it has it mounted in the same way.

Barrel fastening rings seems to be not ideal as I see someone was cleaning the barrel and probably removed them. Afterwards probably it was soldered.

You can also see that wood has a different color between 2 and 3, what suggested some ring is missing (similar to 5 when it comes to width).

Quite interesting thing is that wood is nicely connected under the fastening ring 2 (because of overall length of the stock)

Qusko
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Old 7th March 2020, 04:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusko
Dear Stu,

Adding one more picture for you with sling ring in the middle of barrel. You will see that bigger ring is on the same side as the one on the opposite side of the lock. I have some tanchika and it has it mounted in the same way.

Barrel fastening rings seems to be not ideal as I see someone was cleaning the barrel and probably removed them. Afterwards probably it was soldered.

You can also see that wood has a different color between 2 and 3, what suggested some ring is missing (similar to 5 when it comes to width).

Quite interesting thing is that wood is nicely connected under the fastening ring 2 (because of overall length of the stock)

Qusko
Thanks for that. The first pic of your thread looked as if the ring was in fact on the side facing, but I guess that pic was a bit dark in that area.
Different color wood could suggest an early repair?
Stu
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Old 8th March 2020, 05:49 PM   #9
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Hello again

The sling rings would be mounted on the left side of the gun so that it can be carried on the person's back with the lock positioned outward. This allowed the weight of the gun to be distributed across the entire torso of the body versus just one shoulder. Similar to a sword baldric. Interesting that European French (and other) muskets also mounted their sling rings on the side till about 1740. But muskets manufactured in the Ottoman/Balkan regions continued the side mount practice throughout their life time.

The difference in color of that portion of the stock could be from a period stock repair as Stu suggests. But there should be at least some small evidence of a repair. What it looks like to me is that when the gun was originally built it had another brass/metal sheath wrapped over the stock in this area. Similar to the metal sheathing near the muzzle end. That would account for the dis-coloration in that area.

I somewhat misspoke on my post above. While the lock on Gusko's musket, and my photos above do represent one of the most widely utilized miquelet locks on Balkan made guns, the most common lock I see on Boyliya muskets is different. Often called a Bulgarian lock by collectors. It's a bit more unusual looking miquelet lock. But it shows up on virtually every Boyliya musket I've seen.

Of course, these guns were individually made, often to a customer's personal specifications. And sometimes decorated with a mix of cultures. And Qusko's musket is a good example of this mix. A very interesting piece.

Rick
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Old 6th December 2021, 07:34 PM   #10
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I hope it will be interesting for you. Refreshing our discussion about boyliya / tufenk muskets.

This time an example with chiseled barrel.
Do you know where it was produced? Seems it presents warriors from Balkans (one with yataghan, other with a musket, all in traditional skirts, ...).

Similar barrel I've found in Balkan ball butt pistol (will try to find it and post separately)

Miquelet lock with some brass parts (usually it's steel only)
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Old 6th December 2021, 07:59 PM   #11
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Mentioned pistol with similar chiseled decoration.
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Old 4th January 2022, 01:38 PM   #12
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Hi,

Has anyone saw similar pistols/muskets with chiseled barrels and can share more about them?
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Old 13th January 2022, 05:44 PM   #13
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Hi Gusko

Somehow, I missed your latest addition to this Thread. Glad I found it.

Your latest photos starting with Post #10: This appears to be another Boyliya styled musket generally. I say this due to the overall shape of the stock.
LOCK: Here again is the very popular Balkan style lock utilized with many different guns during this period. But yes, unusual to see the brass overlay on this style of lock. Unlike the Bulgarian style lock I posted above, in which brass overlay decoration seemed to be the norm, and more typically utilized with most of the Boyliya styled muskets I've seen. Also note on the Balkan lock it has the top edge of the frizzen come to a point like the Bulgarian lock. Both the overlay and frizzen just being a slight variation from the locksmith.
BARREL: WOW!! What a beautiful barrel indeed. Off hand, I can't recall seeing a musket barrel chisiled the intire length of the barrel - uninterupted. Very cool. Imagine how long it would have taken to accomplish.
PISTOL LOCK: You could almost guess that the chisiling on the Boyliya barrel, and the lock on the pistol, were both done in the same shop. LOL

While none of these guns are exactly identical (unless made as a pair of pistols), there does seem to be certain styling characteristics that were popular with a variety of customers accross different regions of the Empire.
Thus the similarity of the chisiling on the musket barrel and the pistol lock.

Rick
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Old 14th January 2022, 11:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusko View Post
Barrel stamped with 'M' in crown.
Sorry for not having answered before. The stamp is not an "M" but an "AM" and stands for the French gunsmith Augustin Merley of St. Etienne who was activ from 1782-1811
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Old 15th January 2022, 07:36 PM   #15
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Thanks Corodo. Most intreresting.

Rick
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Old 15th January 2022, 11:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusko View Post
Hi,

Has anyone saw similar pistols/muskets with chiseled barrels and can share more about them?

Yes, I have one, looks like it came from the same maker judging from the barrel designs.
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Old 16th January 2022, 06:28 PM   #17
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Good example Rick. Note the style of chisiling/engraving on both the barrel and lock are fairly consistant, and likely done by the same artist.
While we know their were many gun shops throughout the Balkans, there does seem to be some styling cues that were very popular. Notice much of the decoration was done in a generic fashion. I assume to attract the largest volumn of prospective buyers without offending any religious sensabilities.
You do see this full length pattern chisiling/engraving more on pistol barrels than on musket barrels. The musket barrels tend to do something like maybe heavy chisiling at the breech, then traveling down the barrel turn to plain, or lighter engraving, then maybe back to heavier chisiling towards the muzzle end.
I'm sure there are others, but the OP's barrel on Post #10 is the first musket length barrel I've seen with the same, consistant pattern of chisiling it's entire length. I also wonder if there is a possible Greek influence/ownership with relation to the barrel decoration since the Greeks seemed especially fond of using human figures and masks on their gun barrels.

Here is an Ottoman blunderbuss pistol with heavy chisil work at the breech only, but matching with the chisil work on the lock. Likely done by the same artisit using cannons and columns.

Rick
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Old 21st January 2022, 03:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26 View Post
Sorry for not having answered before. The stamp is not an "M" but an "AM" and stands for the French gunsmith Augustin Merley of St. Etienne who was activ from 1782-1811
Corrado, appreciate your information about the stamp!!
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