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Old 18th September 2020, 06:19 AM   #61
Battara
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Ooooo............that's interesting!
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Old 10th October 2020, 11:18 AM   #62
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some further info on the Bosnian Bichaqs:

The handles are bone with ornamental inlay work of bronze and glazed ceramic. The graceful blades are single edge, mostly powerful 5 mm (3/16 ”) thick at the spine, - stout and sturdy carbon steel blade with an upswept needle-pointed tip with file work to the thick sphave one.

They have generally a tapered full tang - tapering the tang gives the knife a balance that can't be achieved any other way. Tapering the tang gets rid of unnecessary weight that you don't need. It also is considered the sign of a seasoned knifemaker; tapered tangs are associated with hand-forged blades.
Some do One side of the blade display a motif of "Kilij" (Turkish saber)

Ref.: "Islamic Weapons. Maghrib to Moghul" , by Anthony C. Tirri, p. 168

Added a picture of an ( rare ) example without the circular ornamental inlays
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Last edited by gp; 10th October 2020 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 10th October 2020, 12:00 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26
I've got this bichaq today with the shamshir mark on its blade
may I compliment you as yours looks very well indeed and is in a very good condition, also its scabbard. Good catch! Gratuliere ☼

Piece of advise on the bone hilt / handle if I may be so bold :

it looks at one side in a perhaps poor condition. Not to bad but you have to check and watch it

to avoid further deterioration and small pieces splitting off, I would advise to gently take a little drop of olive oil ( pure, not mixed and light colored only- not heavy colored; I use virgin olive oil) on your fingertip and gently and softly rub it over the darkish, damaged parts.
Take a soft cloth to take , rub the dirt off and repeat it if required: you'll see it yourself. Do not overdo it and take no risk. just a little bit.

It will not only clean the dirt a little but also feed the (mostly made from buffelo or ox ) horn and hence avoid further drying out.

Not quite necessary but only visual improvement (if you want) you can use the finest stainless steel wool (Edelstahlwolle extra fein ) to smoothen the surface. Like they do with lefaucheux pinfire revolver bone handles
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Last edited by gp; 11th October 2020 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 11th October 2020, 07:37 AM   #64
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Very good advice, thanks a lot. I used olive oil and hope that it will avoid to further dry out the grip material
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Old 1st November 2020, 11:58 AM   #65
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my latest bichaq purchase; I wouldn't call it rare but rather unusual as this type of grip or handle is actually only found in the cutlery section or the most limited to the small knife (non bichaqs) section. Most Bosnian bichaq look like small yataghans or derived from them

This one from Sarajevo has :

a total lenght of 34 cm
without scabbard 33 cm
a blade lenght of 23 cm
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Old 1st November 2020, 12:21 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I have seen so far not another mark like this one.

I have seen a similar knife around but in a much better version or at least the decent standard Bosnian version with the kilij mark.
Please compare the handle / grip.

I can not recall exactly where but your mark rings a bell as I have seen it around before... could be as a Turkish or rather Ottoman one.
Could be that a local craftsman copied the Bosnian one and marked it with the Turkish / Ottoman cresent...
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Old 8th November 2020, 01:39 AM   #67
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just bought a bichaq at an auction with this description:

"Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger Knife with Carved Horn Grip & Silver Mounts. Total Length (inside scabbard if present) : 10 1/2" Blade Length : 5 1/4"

Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.
Now I shall have to wait until it arrives and clean it
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Last edited by gp; 8th November 2020 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 8th November 2020, 04:38 PM   #68
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Very nice! Unusual to have a hanger assembly on the back of the scabbard. Very nice workmanship on the front and throat of the scabbard.
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Old 8th November 2020, 09:06 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gp
just bought a bichaq at an auction with this description:

"Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger Knife with Carved Horn Grip & Silver Mounts. Total Length (inside scabbard if present) : 10 1/2" Blade Length : 5 1/4"

Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.
Now I shall have to wait until it arrives and clean it
warning :

I bought it from Sofe Design Auctions, LLC in Richardson, TX, United States yesterday.
Price $ 175 + 25 %
whilst the estimate was $300 - $500.
no minimum price.....so lucky me.....

Not so

as it just got cancelled and I received an email:

Please be advised that the seller has requested your permission to remove the following item:
Lot 406, Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger
which you've won during Fall Antique Arms & Art, Nov. 7th, 2020 on Nov 07, 2020.


Reason for removal - clerking error.

Never in 30 years auction experience I met this...after 1 month a clerking error took place... just like the dagger was Asian....
So much for integrity...for an item that was weeks on their books and internet
Well s-beep- happens, so I'll sing an old Lizzy song


I am just a cowboy, lonesome on the trail
A starry night, a campfire light
The coyote call and the howling wind wail
So I ride out to the old sundown

Stay healthy you all !

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Old 8th November 2020, 10:10 PM   #70
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This is not on. Someone did not get their hoped for price and so reneged on the deal, Shame.
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Old 8th November 2020, 10:49 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gp
... Please be advised that the seller has requested your permission to remove the following item:
Lot 406, Unusual 19th C., Asian Indonesian Malaysian Dagger
which you've won during Fall Antique Arms & Art, Nov. 7th, 2020 on Nov 07, 2020.
Reason for removal - clerking error. ...
This statement from the auction house is critical. You are being asked for permission to cancel the sale. As I read this, you can say "No" and the sale should be transacted properly. Also, you are not being told what the "clerking error" was and who made that error. If it was the seller, then that's his bad luck! If it was the auction house, then the seller might have some recourse in getting compensation from the auction house. You should not be denied a legal transaction because somebody else made an error.
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Old 9th November 2020, 01:15 AM   #72
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Thnx!

I did send LiveAuctioneers who is the intermediate my complaint but they don't get involved except advice to agree with the permission to remove or if the seller receives no response from me within 7 days, the item will be removed from your shopping cart automatically, and you will not be responsible for payment.

So now I insisted and requested the auction house Sofe Design Auctions, LLC to legally comply and invoice me so I can have my forwarder pick it up.

Strange rules from Sofe Design Auctions, LLC in Richardson, TX, ...
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Old 9th November 2020, 01:55 AM   #73
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just got their reply...

"It was a clerking mistake on Liveauctioneer.com. You did not win this item. Sorry. Auctioneer rewarded the winning bid to a floor bidder."

Guess what ... my winning bid I placed 2 days ago is still the highest on the internet...

what's happening with the good ol' U S of A ...? Should I give Rudy (Giuliani) a call...?
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:13 PM   #74
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Hi gp,

This all smells very fishy! You were identified as the winning bidder, and asked permission for the seller to withdraw the item. Having pushed for what is rightfully yours, and you expressly did not grant the requested permission, you are now told that you were not the winning bidder!

If you want to take it further, you (or, preferably, your legal representative) could file a consumer complaint with the respective Attorneys General in the states where the auction house and Liveauctioneer.com are registered. Without knowing the specific details, it may be possible (perhaps) for you to argue that one or both are in breach of contract for the sale, and that you were provided false or misleading information as to the winner of the item. It may not be worth your time and expense, but a good lawyer would certainly help.

Thanks for posting the details of your transaction. Readers here can form their own opinions of the respective companies involved.

I stopped buying from auction houses 40 years ago--buyers premiums were too expensive and there were too many shenanigans like your unfortunate experience.

Ian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gp
just got their reply...

"It was a clerking mistake on Liveauctioneer.com. You did not win this item. Sorry. Auctioneer rewarded the winning bid to a floor bidder."

Guess what ... my winning bid I placed 2 days ago is still the highest on the internet...

what's happening with the good ol' U S of A ...? Should I give Rudy (Giuliani) a call...?

Last edited by Ian; 9th November 2020 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 9th November 2020, 02:42 PM   #75
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Well I leave it as it is and will not bid on this auction house ever again.
Especially asI left a second higher bid 24 hrs prior the auction ...

I have other positive experiences with US auction houses so nothing against them or the good ol’ U S of A ...

Except it did cost me a double Eliah Craig single barrel...
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Old 9th November 2020, 05:59 PM   #76
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received a reply on my request for details:

"Dear Sirs / Madams Regarding lot 406 from Nov 7th 2020 Auction held by SOFE Design Auctions We had to cancel this transaction due to a clerking mistake. The higher winning bid ($275)was awarded to another bidder who was bidding via another bidding platform. We use 6 bidding platforms. The clerk has made a clerking mistake by closing the lot too early! And since she/he opened the next lot for bidding she/he was unable to reopen lot 406 again to continue showing a bidding progression. In our practice it happens! In any case: Auctioneer's decision will be final. Auctioneer also does not accept liability for technology, website or internet failure, or unforeseen circumstances that may influence the execution of bids. This matter is closed now. Again, please accept our apology. Hopefully we'll have similar items in the future! "

you can guess what my action will be for similar auctions in the future with them....
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Old 9th November 2020, 07:46 PM   #77
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and now something else...


a very nice overview containing some Ottoman cold weapons:

http://www.banatheritage.com/english...s/ColdArms.pdf

Last edited by gp; 9th November 2020 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 10th November 2020, 07:39 PM   #78
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GP and others, I too have had experience with the questionable practices of this auction house when I had "won" an item in their online contest but never received the item. Previously to that, I had no issues the one other time using their services during an auction. I am not here to bash, but just beware, read reviews and use best judgment with this auction house when considering.

Anyway, here is my Bosnian Bichaq for the thread record. A larger example at 37cm total, and 37,5cm in sheath. This was purchased from Lew's estate sale a few years back.

-Geoff
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Old 12th November 2020, 07:55 PM   #79
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nice one Geoff !

just received my smallest bichaq ever
which made up 10 times my auction experience and "lost" lot

total length 18 cm
blade 10 cm
ferrule 1 cm and steel; unlike all others which are copper, this one is part of or tied to the blade
handle. grip 7 cm
scabbard 13,5 cm

it clearly differs from the "cutlery" knives (who are without scabbard anyway) and I never saw one like his before.

Perhaps an apprentice piece or just show of mastership,
who nows....


Your thoughts please..

much obliged !

Gunar
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Old 20th February 2021, 01:03 PM   #80
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my recent addition is a strange one as I only found 2 bichaqs which came close. First of all its dimensions:

total length 35 cm
blade: 22 cm
ferrule 2 cm
handle: 11 cm
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Old 20th February 2021, 01:07 PM   #81
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the "strangeness" is in the grip: I only saw a similar-ish placed here by member Valjhun in 2008 and by a US seller ( the latter with regards to the ferrule)

The top of the handle is very nicely worked with plural symbols, although both examples lack the redish dots which mine has.
Also for the first time I see the half-cirlce with dots in the ferrule ( poorly in mine but very well in the enclosed picture to be seen).

Any one has seen this semi-circle before ?
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Last edited by gp; 20th February 2021 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 20th February 2021, 01:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gp
my recent addition is a strange one as I only found 2 bichaqs which came close. First of all its dimensions:

total length 35 cm
blade: 22 cm
ferrule 2 cm
handle: 11 cm
the blade has a double mark. Normally with the longer bichaqs one sees a double "f" ( versus a single "f" for a normal size bichaq ), but this one has 2 different ones on 1 blade: I never met 2 different ones on 1 blade before as well. Did any of you have one or has seen one with both marks together on 1 blade?
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Last edited by gp; 21st February 2021 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 20th February 2021, 07:00 PM   #83
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Not yet.

The "f" is a stylized shamshir.
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Old 20th February 2021, 10:41 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Not yet.

The "f" is a stylized shamshir.
Yep, thank you. Actually a kılıç or also sometimes called kilij, being the Bosnian and Ottoman name for it ( meaning sword). Remains strange to have the shamshir / kılıç together with the other mark

I know them to be seperate on a blade but not combined...
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Old 21st February 2021, 07:26 PM   #85
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Yeah have to admit I've not seen that before.
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Old 3rd April 2021, 07:17 PM   #86
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new family member...
unfortunately no scabbard but interesting the "w" or "m" type of motives one normally finds on the copper scabbard, are here found on the ferrule


Total length: 28 cm. - 11 inch
Blade length: 18 cm. - 7 inch
Handle made from (buffalo or ox) bone

your comments please...thank you
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Last edited by gp; 3rd April 2021 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 15th April 2021, 12:46 AM   #87
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Default Frank or Franz Karl

Very Interesting! My bichaq from Bosnia looks very similar.
The scabbard of this bıçak has a monogram FK engraved on the front and "Franz Karl" on the back. Sorry I don’t have a closeup photo handy.

- Dave A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova
Last Sunday I've got my first bichaq at the local antique market. It has a surprisingly good condition. The interesting thing about it is the inscription on the scabbard. On one side there are 2 large letters FK and on the other inscription "Frank Karl", which seems to be a maker's signature. The blade has a usual scimitar mark, which can also be read as a mirrored "f"
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Old 15th April 2021, 07:19 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveA
Very Interesting! My bichaq from Bosnia looks very similar.
The scabbard of this bıçak has a monogram FK engraved on the front and "Franz Karl" on the back. Sorry I don’t have a closeup photo handy.

- Dave A
hello Dave,

have a look as I did provide input on FK:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...9&postcount=25

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...5&postcount=16
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Old 16th April 2021, 10:13 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gp
Obviously it is a Bosnian Bichaq, a non K.u.K / non Habsburgian one but dated prior the occupation by Habsburg Austria , so before 1878.
My guess would be around 1850 /60 based upon exhibition pieces in Sarajevo I saw.
This is the only scabbard with a hanging ring. Or I'm wrong?
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Old 17th April 2021, 09:31 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ren
This is the only scabbard with a hanging ring. Or I'm wrong?
No, you're not (completely) wrong...as there is a little more than meets the eye to it.
Cold weapons used in the Ottoman Balkans, moreover Bosnia, Albania and Greece would not have a hanging ring as they would be carried in traditional scarf, wrapped around a man's waist, which functions as a belt.

The one you are refering to is more a "show" piece of a rich merchant or an aristocratic of a lower rank, or a lady's dagger (as can be found in Serbia between 1860-1900).
Serbia were from approx. 1862 pan-Slavism turned their eye more to the west than the Ottoman east.
Hence influence and contact in these border erea's with Austria, Hungaria and their Slav brethren ( Russia and others like the sokol movements ) would cause the introduction of other practical ideas and fashion as f.i. some of these rings.

Last edited by gp; 17th April 2021 at 10:24 PM.
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