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Old 3rd May 2016, 03:46 PM   #1
carlos
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Default Pulwar from afghanistan

I just adquire this sword. The pictures are from seller, I hope received soon, I don,t know nothing about origin of the piece.
Could you help me? Age? real or tourist weapon?
Thanks in advance
carlos
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Old 3rd May 2016, 03:56 PM   #2
A.alnakkas
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I like these. Beautiful, practical swords. While these photos are not enough, I think the blade is crude with an odd curve that follows the Persian style. Spine in one of the pictures looks slim but more photos would be better.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 04:02 PM   #3
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Judging by the photos , a good pulvar . I think - the second half of the 19th century . Blade - Shamshir . Probaly wootz.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 04:12 PM   #4
Ian
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I agree with Alnakkas. The blade looks very thin and has a Turkish tilt to the curve. I don't think you will find wootz under the oxidation.

Ian.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 04:27 PM   #5
ariel
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Agree with Lotfy and Ian.
First thing you may do is cleaning the blade: a lot of oil and steel wool. Then maybe polish an area and etch it. Be careful not to remove any markings hiding under the rust layer.

I am also not sure how thin the blade is: can you measure it close to the hilt? Usually, Afghani pulwar blades are pretty massive and often have rather elaborate fullers.

Will be interesting to see it after gentle restoration.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:00 PM   #6
Jens Nordlunde
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Maybe this helps a bit.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:08 PM   #7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos
I just adquire this sword. The pictures are from seller, I hope received soon, I don,t know nothing about origin of the piece.
Could you help me? Age? real or tourist weapon?
Thanks in advance
carlos

Salaams Carlos, Afghan Pulwar or Pulvar ... This could come out reasonably well as already stated...

I always wondered what the actual relationship was with the Indian Tulvar? Looking at the words in particular Pul meaning flower I also thought what has this sword got to do with flowers? Pul = Flower.

Recently I am drawn to the fact that the pommel does indeed look like a big metalic floral device, very geometrical but lending itself to that description.

Funnily enough the Hindi word for flower is a bit unpronounceable by Europeans as it starts with a soft F sound but is pronounced phol... Pholvar? so it invariably sounds like Tulvar.... I am not a linguist in Hindi but am surrounded by Hindi, Urdu, and Mulialam speakers as well as Arab speakers... and this conundrum interests me on the linguistics front.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 4th May 2016, 10:25 AM   #8
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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I have a few photos of examples to place...and hope you may all comment ..
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Old 4th May 2016, 12:09 PM   #9
ariel
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Ibrahiim,
We just managed to pass the stage of Phul Kattara, and now,- that?
Please, cease and desist:-)))
Otherwise, I shall resurrect the phulish ( Jim, thanks!) hypothesis of Phul Medames, the secret phlatulant phlogiston of Aphghani phlora:-)

Last edited by ariel; 4th May 2016 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 4th May 2016, 01:28 PM   #10
Pukka Bundook
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The sword in the original post has either an unusually large pommel, or an unusually slim grip.
Nothing wrong with that, just slightly different!
Bit concerned about the blade shape and thickness though.
We will know more when Carlos has it in hand.
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Old 4th May 2016, 03:12 PM   #11
ariel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook
The sword in the original post has either an unusually large pommel, or an unusually slim grip.
Nothing wrong with that, just slightly different!
Bit concerned about the blade shape and thickness though.
We will know more when Carlos has it in hand.

Or an unusually small blade....
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Old 4th May 2016, 07:01 PM   #12
estcrh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Or an unusually small blade....
The blade seems very flat from what can be seen, more pictures are needed for sure.
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Old 5th May 2016, 01:32 PM   #13
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Ibrahiim,
We just managed to pass the stage of Phul Kattara, and now,- that?
Please, cease and desist:-)))
Otherwise, I shall resurrect the phulish ( Jim, thanks!) hypothesis of Phul Medames, the secret phlatulant phlogiston of Aphghani phlora:-)

Salaams Ariel, So let me get this straight...You dont think in all Phlobability that the Phommel looks like a phlower?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 5th May 2016, 10:24 PM   #14
ariel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams Ariel, So let me get this straight...You dont think in all Phlobability that the Phommel looks like a phlower?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
About as much as the phamously phabulous phanny of phull-bodied Kim Kardashian :-)))

Last edited by ariel; 6th May 2016 at 12:29 AM.
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Old 6th May 2016, 06:12 PM   #15
carlos
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I have received sword my first impression is handle is older than blade. And blade is shorter than other pulwar I have seen.
Thanks in advance
Carlos
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Old 7th May 2016, 12:13 AM   #16
ariel
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I think the blade is new, even though we can't see how thick it is.
Afghani sword as an overwhelming rule had their blades decorated in some fashion, at the very least they had fullers.
Most suspiciously, the rust on the blade is reddish and there is no rust under the langet, the most difficult place to clean.

Also, I have an impression that the blade is not sharpened. Am I wrong?

Sorry to say it, but if possible, I would have returned it to the seller.
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Old 7th May 2016, 02:05 PM   #17
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Hello Carlos,
To me, the blade looks suspiciosly flat. Also from the photos appears to have some strange bends/irregularities. Maybe I am paranoid, but it looks like crudely forged from band steel. Like the band steel was bent to give it the shamshir shape... and the bending wasn't very successful.
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Old 7th May 2016, 03:05 PM   #18
Pukka Bundook
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I tend to agree with the above posts.
The resin looks a bit suspect as well.

Nice old hilt though. :-)
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Old 7th May 2016, 03:13 PM   #19
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Hello Carlos,

sadly I have to agree, the blade look more as doubtful to my eyes. Could you post better pictures from it?

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 7th May 2016, 03:34 PM   #20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Salaams Carlos, The blade is made up...Send it back if you can...I was about to mention that loads of these are coming out of Sharjah souk ...Much the same ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 7th May 2016, 04:33 PM   #21
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Default pulwar

various pulwars with local blades
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Old 7th May 2016, 09:36 PM   #22
Jens Nordlunde
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Ward,
These pictures really are most interesting - from where do you have them?
Jens
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Old 7th May 2016, 11:11 PM   #23
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I like pulwars and collected them for a while. I have 5-6 more and probably sold another 10 or so the last couple years.
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Old 8th May 2016, 03:54 AM   #24
ariel
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Ward,
Can we see the blade of the 4th from the top one in the last pic? The one with brass decorations on the handle?
I have a very similar one, with a wootz blade.
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Old 9th May 2016, 09:15 AM   #25
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Thanks all for the information, the Price I paid was cheaper . maybe I re sold with a low Price to try to recover some money.
thanks again
carlos
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Old 10th May 2016, 09:34 PM   #26
Jim McDougall
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Carlos, regardless of the disappointing blade on this, please remember this is an outstanding old paluoar hilt, and it is amazing whoever had it could not find a more suitable blade. I have always thought these hilts most intriguing and excellent examples of Afghanistan in the earlier 19th century, when it was regarded as northern India in the British Raj. As such, these swords were simply thought of as tulwars (Egerton , 1884) and represented these regions as one of the most turbulent geo-political regions in the world.

For those who wish to know more on the circumstances which certainly prevailed in the times of these sabres and this hilt as well, I would recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game", a great book!
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Old 10th May 2016, 10:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

For those who wish to know more on the circumstances which certainly prevailed in the times of these sabres and this hilt as well, I would recommend Peter Hopkirk's "The Great Game", a great book!
I can only second it withe greatest enthusiasm.
This is a book you cannot put down.
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Old 10th May 2016, 11:58 PM   #28
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Agreed...an excellent history book that reads like a suspense novel!
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Old 11th May 2016, 03:56 AM   #29
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And do not forget my beloved Harry Flashman! :-)
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