Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th December 2016, 12:17 AM   #31
Aslan Paladin
Member
 
Aslan Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand
Posts: 122
Default

I have cleaned and etched the blade with ascetic acid. That part in question was actually just dirt. The lamination pattern on the naga barong was random, somewhat unremarkable. However it is a shandigan blade, the first in my collection, and I am very happy about it. The bottom barong in my barong group photo has a double-edged, hollow ground blade.
Aslan Paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2016, 12:30 AM   #32
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,973
Default

Arms and Antiques,

I have not seen any evidence of wootz used in Moro weapons or heard of it being reported.

If such a thing did occur it would be extremely rare. As I look at the pictures of the cleaned blade, I'm not seeing anything that would suggest wootz. Some older Moro pieces were treated by collectors with various agents, including cosmoline, to prevent rust. These sometimes produced patterns on blades that were removed with the cleaning of the blade. I wonder if something similar occurred here.

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2016, 06:51 AM   #33
Aslan Paladin
Member
 
Aslan Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Te Aroha, New Zealand
Posts: 122
Default

For Arms and Antiques, here are pictures of the same side of the blade all cleaned up and etched (it would have been great if the blade turned out to be wootz but all is good the way it is).
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Aslan Paladin; 19th December 2016 at 04:19 PM.
Aslan Paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th December 2016, 06:53 PM   #34
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslan Paladin
For Arms and Antiques, here are pictures of the same side of the blade all cleaned up and etched (it would have been great if the blade turned out to be wootz but all is good the way it is).
Hello Aslan,

the lamination would come out much better when you polish the blade better IMVHO.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2016, 12:43 AM   #35
ArmsAndAntiques
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Default

How unfortunate. It's always exciting to look for wootz where it shouldn't be. But lamination is a good substitute especially on a fine overall example such as this.

Wootz does surprisingly turns up in sometimes the most unexpected places.
ArmsAndAntiques is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th December 2016, 02:24 AM   #36
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Arms and Antiques,

I have not seen any evidence of wootz used in Moro weapons or heard of it being reported.

If such a thing did occur it would be extremely rare. As I look at the pictures of the cleaned blade, I'm not seeing anything that would suggest wootz. Some older Moro pieces were treated by collectors with various agents, including cosmoline, to prevent rust. These sometimes produced patterns on blades that were removed with the cleaning of the blade. I wonder if something similar occurred here.

Ian.
Totally agree with Ian. In fact, the same can be said about the whole Indonesian-Malaysian-Philippine region. When the exceedingly rare example shows up (in Indonesia) it always seems to be a trade blade from Persia.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2023, 11:13 AM   #37
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

I've made a quick word search and I've not seen this example below bought to these pages, so I've added it to this thread being the first one of a few within the forum that I found.... Sir Stamford Raffles collection.
Attached Images
 
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2023, 12:29 AM   #38
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,124
Default

WW!
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2023, 01:16 PM   #39
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,973
Default

Outstanding example Gavin. Is this one in your collection?
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2023, 08:30 AM   #40
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Outstanding example Gavin. Is this one in your collection?
No Ian, the collection is noted in the thread... Raffles.
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2023, 05:28 PM   #41
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 960
Default

Hey Gavin, Might you have the dimensions on Raffles’ Barung?
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2023, 11:08 PM   #42
Gustav
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,190
Default

Overall length 56,8 cm, 5,8 cm wide, weight - 870 gr.

The motiv of ivory carving looks quite Chinese.
Gustav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2023, 11:15 PM   #43
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 960
Default

Thanks Gustav
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2023, 10:53 AM   #44
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Overall length 56,8 cm, 5,8 cm wide, weight - 870 gr.

The motiv of ivory carving looks quite Chinese.
Indeed, they were best of the carvers... I've bounced this question off a few of our learned community... there are other Barong and Kris hulu with similar motifs in the BM too, I believe at least one is clearly Chinese in design too, may be noted as being Chinese made too... there is a Sadap hilt in the marketplace too, seems much like the same community of carvers...
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.