Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 23rd June 2021, 07:07 PM   #1
chopstick_minh
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3
Default Need help with Kris

Hello everyone!

I am new here, and I recently got into collecting a few blades here and there! It's all very exciting.

I recently acquired this blade from my martial arts instructor.
I think it is a moro Kris?

He said he bought it about 40 years ago from a guy, who was a pilot and who bought it off in Mindanao (sometime during WW2?). Not much to go on.

I am quite lost as I would like to restore this blade to its former glory but I do not trust myself with treating it (some told me to just treat the blade with vinegar, and use epoxy steel (or resin) for the handle.)
The wooden scabbard could use a bit of maintenance too, and I can't help but think there are pieces missing in the blade (another asang-asang?)?

I was wondering if there is anyone who could suggest a place who does restoration. I live in Canada, so shipping to the Philippines is quite costly.

Many thanks!
Attached Images
    
chopstick_minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2021, 01:02 AM   #2
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,714
Smile

Welcome to the forum, Minh!

Yes, Mindanao: Maguindanao and first half of 20th century, I believe.

The piece might well be complete and just need some TLC. With the blade already loose, this might well be feasible for you to do yourself with some help from this forum: Despite a nice blade, it's not a highly valuable piece and IMHO it can cope with some carefully performed learning experiences ... (OTOH, if you want some assistance, Jose is in the US and will certainly be able to lend a helping hand.)

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2021, 01:16 AM   #3
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,809
Default

Kai once again is on the money. I would posit 1930s-1940s.

I will also note that the copper clamp (baka baka in Maguindanao) has a nicely chased pattern - best I've ever seen. There is a possibility that the pattern is acid etched - better pictures might better determine it is truly chased or etched.

(BTW - I'm Jose)

Also welcome to our little forum!

Last edited by Battara; 25th June 2021 at 01:27 AM.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2021, 03:32 PM   #4
chopstick_minh
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3
Default

Thank you very much, Kai, Jose, for the answers! I really appreciate it!
I always want to have an idea of where my blades come from!

I mean when I get it made by the panday himself, at least I know where its from but getting a pre-owned one, I kinda want to know the history of it and its origin (who made it and where).

I cannot tell the difference between acid etching or chasing.
There's a bit of relief on the surface but it's really not deep, so maybe ....not chasing? (I don't know how deep an acid etch will have on the surface either... )

I would very much like to have help into getting this blade back into shape.
Either send it to someone who offer such service or have guidance into how to restore it (treating the blade to get rid of black spots, polish it, repairing the Baka Baka into the handle properly, securing everything, final cutting test)!

Best regards,
Minh
chopstick_minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2021, 03:43 PM   #5
chopstick_minh
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3
Default

I'm not sure in this zoom in picture of the Baka Baka can help.
The more I look at it, the more I think it's more acid etched?
I mean, if it was chased, wouldn't the lines be deeper, and less precise?

The Baka Baka should be at the end of the handle, yes?
In line with the edge of the blade (same line as my knuckle if I was holding the Kris).

This makes me wonder what is the purpose of the protuded opening on the side of the blade tang in the wooden handle (where you insert the blade).

Would you know?
Did the bladesmith use that opening for a filling?
Epoxy resin for example?
Attached Images
  
chopstick_minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2021, 03:28 PM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
I will also note that the copper clamp (baka baka in Maguindanao) has a nicely chased pattern - best I've ever seen. There is a possibility that the pattern is acid etched - better pictures might better determine it is truly chased or etched.
I don't think this pattern is chased. Chasing involves hammering from the reverse side of the metal to push out the pattern on the facing side of the metal. This does not look anything like that to me and the copper is probably too thick for that technique in any case. It could be acid etched i suppose, or simply engraved.
It is a beautiful baca-baca regardless.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2021, 04:26 AM   #7
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,809
Default

Actually repousse is from the back then front.

But with the close ups I do agree David that this baka-baka is acid etched. As Chopstick_minh said the designs are not deep enough.

On the blade itself, the work is most likely chased with tempered steel tools (though sometimes engraving is done....)
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2021, 10:58 PM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
Actually repousse is from the back then front.

But with the close ups I do agree David that this baka-baka is acid etched. As Chopstick_minh said the designs are not deep enough.

On the blade itself, the work is most likely chased with tempered steel tools (though sometimes engraving is done....)
Ah yes, you are correct. I confused myself because repossesse and chasing are often used in conjunction with each other. My bad.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2021, 12:50 AM   #9
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,360
Default

Josť, i would image that this baca-baca would be an example of chasing. This one is suassa.
Attached Images
 
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2021, 02:41 AM   #10
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,809
Default

Oh yes David. Nice example. Suassa? - very nice. And looks Maguindanao.

And yes chasing is part of repousse, and some chasing work can look like repousse, so the confusion is quite understandable.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th June 2021, 02:57 PM   #11
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara View Post
Oh yes David. Nice example. Suassa? - very nice. And looks Maguindanao.

And yes chasing is part of repousse, and some chasing work can look like repousse, so the confusion is quite understandable.
Yes, i have been considering it Maguindanao at least as long as i have understood the differences in Moro styles.
To be honest i have never had the metal tested. But this kris has been in my collection longer than any other. It is in fact the very first ethnographic weapon i ever bought and i have had it since 1982. In almost 40 years i have never had to clean any tarnish off this bit of metal and the colour is right for suassa (though not as coppery as some), so i believe it is a fair bet that it contains a reasonable amount of gold content. It is also a rather high end piece and all the other beautifully crafted fitting are high content silver, so suassa would be fitting.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2021, 04:37 AM   #12
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 6,809
Default

Oh I'm sure it does, as well as a little more silver in it than others based on the hue of the color.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.