Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd January 2024, 02:40 PM   #1
PeterP
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 15
Default The other Palembang flee market keris

Hi, this is the other Palembang keris I bought at a flee markt. Also a nice one I think. Less smooth as the other one, but as i see it still a very good quality blade. It has some remnants of kinatah on top of the ganja. The grip is a bit less robust and the wood is of a lesser quality wood. A weird thing, which I have never seen before, is that the scabbard is made of two parts but split in the middle, not on the sides. So there is a left and a right part, instead of front and back. Can't imagine that this wasn't covered with a pendok.
Is this also a Palembang blade or from another area incorporated in a Palembang dress? Any thoughts or comments on this piece?
The total length of the keris is 53 cm, the blade without peksi is 40 cm.
Attached Images
      

Last edited by PeterP; 22nd January 2024 at 02:48 PM. Reason: forgot something
PeterP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2024, 08:17 PM   #2
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,781
Default

I recently parted with a Bugis style keris that had the same method of gandar construction. It was the only one I had ever seen --- until I saw the picture of this one.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2024, 09:21 PM   #3
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,246
Post

This is a pretty common way of construction of scabbards for northern Melayu keris coteng.

Also typical for western Sumatran Sewar - thus, this idea has been around.

Very unusual for Palembang or all of southern Sumatra though.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2024, 06:31 PM   #4
GIO
Member
 
GIO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
I recently parted with a Bugis style keris that had the same method of gandar construction. It was the only one I had ever seen --- until I saw the picture of this one.
I also have one. Now you can say you have seen two !
Attached Images
  
GIO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th May 2024, 11:43 PM   #5
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,781
Default

Thanks GIO.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2024, 09:29 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,651
Default

A panjang with the same gandar construction.
Attached Images
 
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2024, 12:25 AM   #7
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,781
Default

It is interesting the way these are showing up. I have only ever had one in my hands & had never seen another.

Now, measure that against how many keris I have had possession of & have seen. By about age 30 I had +/- 3000 keris in various states of repair, at age 30 I had 18 years experience with keris.

By around age 45 I had a lot less keris, I began getting rid of lesser keris as I began to understand the "quality" concept, & Empu Suparman was the single biggest influence in this.

However, most of the keris I have seen, owned, handled have been Javanese & Balinese.

Probably this way of making a gandar might be something that is limited to Sumatera & the Peninsula, to my mind this means that historically these places did not know about the segrek, the tool with reverse teeth that is used to make a gandar with no joints.
Attached Images
 
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2024, 07:38 PM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,061
Default

Hi Peter. Looks like everyone got distracted by your split gandar and missed your question.
Yes, i would say that the blade most probably true to the dress and of Palembang origin. Over all an very nice keris. And the "selut" looks like tarnished silver so if this were mine i would hit it with a polishing cloth and see if it shines up.
I'm not convinced the split down the middle means this gandar would have been covered with a pendok. Ususally a lesser wood would have been used if the gandar was intended to be covered and this stem seems a bit too bulky to cover. Nice flea market find.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2024, 09:17 PM   #9
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,781
Default

Yes David, all true.

However, if we were to remove all dress items from this blade, what classification do you believe most experienced students of the keris would give it?

By "classification" I mean "tangguh".
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2024, 10:39 AM   #10
jagabuwana
Member
 
jagabuwana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 280
Default

I wasn't asked, so please excuse me for butting in, Alan. But I am interested and it's been awhile since your question has gotten a response.

Would this keris permit a Banten classification?
jagabuwana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2024, 04:54 PM   #11
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagabuwana View Post
I wasn't asked, so please excuse me for butting in, Alan. But I am interested and it's been awhile since your question has gotten a response.

Would this keris permit a Banten classification?
I can see some similarities, but not nearly enough to make that a viable guess for me.
Sorry i didn't respond to the question earlier, but i somehow missed it. I have never considered tangguh my strong suit. I am often much better at noticing why a particular blade could NOT be something rather than proclaiming what i believe it actually IS. I see some similar ricikan that we might see on Banten keris, but not the level of execution i would expect. The blumbangen seems a bit too square and small (more like Mataram) here and i would expect to see greneng and perhaps even jenggot on keris Banten. We don't have a good overall shot, but from what i can see the luk seem too shallow for the usual Banten blade. And if i recall, don't most Banten keris have something more a kin to a Bali finish? In fact i liken Keris Banten somewhat to the look Bali keris.
Not sure i know what answer Alan was looking for, but i might have suggested Palembang regardless of dress is pushed to make a call.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.