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Old 7th July 2021, 10:34 AM   #1
Anthony G.
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Default Keris ligan

I hate the sound of silence. This is another new keris in made which is just finished. For your comments please especially on the workmanship. Thanks
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:20 PM   #2
Mickey the Finn
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Well, it's 05:21 Wednesday, and since I'm awake and the post not yet commented on...

What is that dhapur called? The ganja looks like a good, tight fit. Don't see any obvious cracks, flaws, divots...cold shuts? No...scale pits; that's what I think I frequently see. The pamor looks like buntel mayit/mayat; I've never seen it wrap around so many times. I see quite a few very recently made keris with pamor that has a certain "smeared" appearance at the edges, but not here. At least, not from what I can see in the photos.

Hold on... If it's a keris ligan, and if "Shiva/Siva Eyes" are frequently found in keris ligan, does "keris ligan" constitute some sort of sub-category of keris in which special rules or none at all apply to dhapur and/or ricikan?

Last edited by Mickey the Finn; 7th July 2021 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Time of day correction.
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:26 PM   #3
Anthony G.
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Originally Posted by Mickey the Finn View Post
Well, it's 05:21 Wednesday, and since I'm awake and the post not yet commented on...

What is that dhapur called? The ganja looks like a good, tight fit. Don't see any obvious cracks, flaws, divots...cold shuts? No...scale pits; that's what I think I frequently see. The pamor looks like buntel mayit/mayat; I've never seen it wrap around so many times. I see quite a few very recently made keris with pamor that has a certain "smeared" appearance at the edges, but not here. At least, not from what I can see in the photos.

Hold on... If it's a keris ligan, and if "Shiva/Siva Eyes" are frequently found in keris ligan, does "keris ligan" constitute some sort of sub-category of keris in which special rules or none at all apply to dhapur and/or ricikan?

Hi, thanks for the review. Btw, what is scale pits? As for dhapur, my understanding it does not applies to Balinese bilah? Please correct me if I am incorrect.
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Old 7th July 2021, 11:26 PM   #4
A. G. Maisey
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Anthony, insofar as dhapur goes, Lalu Djelenga mentions dhapur in his "Keris Lombok" which was published in 1993 I think.

Balinese idea? Lombok idea? Jawa idea? I don't know, but at least thirty odd years back collectors in Lombok seem to have been aware of the concept. My guess is adaption of a Javanese standard. Javanese culture does tend to influence all Indonesian culture.

The Neka book mentions dhapur, but the text for that book was written by a Javanese gentleman and much of what is written tends to a Javanese perspective. In this book a comprehensive table of dhapur is provided, but the reference is Javanese, not Balinese, although common Balinese terms are supposedly used to name the ricikan, personally I have some doubts about this, the whole thing looks Javanese to me.

In conversation with the couple of Balinese pande I know dhapur has never seemed to come up in discussion. My personal opinion, and it is only opinion, is that the dhapur thing accompanied the rise of Mataram. A lot of keris lore is much more recent than most people would care to acknowledge.

Under questioning by an interviewer who asked how many types of keris there are, Pak Neka replied that there were three types:- straight, waved & keris pedang. Dhapur did not come into it. This was a filmed interview for, I think, TV viewing, I was present when that interview took place.

The term "keris pedang" is an alternate name for the ligan.

In respect of the workmanship, it is absolutely impossible for me to comment on that from photographs, even from very high quality, very hi-res images I would hesitate to comment.

I will say that to my eye the overall impression (pawakan) is one of stiffness and imbalance, it looks as if the maker was working at the edge of his ability. But I could be incorrect in this comment, it could just be the angle of the photo.

Did the sculptor of this keris also forge the bakalan?
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Old 8th July 2021, 08:09 AM   #5
Anthony G.
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Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
Anthony, insofar as dhapur goes, Lalu Djelenga mentions dhapur in his "Keris Lombok" which was published in 1993 I think.

Balinese idea? Lombok idea? Jawa idea? I don't know, but at least thirty odd years back collectors in Lombok seem to have been aware of the concept. My guess is adaption of a Javanese standard. Javanese culture does tend to influence all Indonesian culture.

The Neka book mentions dhapur, but the text for that book was written by a Javanese gentleman and much of what is written tends to a Javanese perspective. In this book a comprehensive table of dhapur is provided, but the reference is Javanese, not Balinese, although common Balinese terms are supposedly used to name the ricikan, personally I have some doubts about this, the whole thing looks Javanese to me.

In conversation with the couple of Balinese pande I know dhapur has never seemed to come up in discussion. My personal opinion, and it is only opinion, is that the dhapur thing accompanied the rise of Mataram. A lot of keris lore is much more recent than most people would care to acknowledge.

Under questioning by an interviewer who asked how many types of keris there are, Pak Neka replied that there were three types:- straight, waved & keris pedang. Dhapur did not come into it. This was a filmed interview for, I think, TV viewing, I was present when that interview took place.

The term "keris pedang" is an alternate name for the ligan.

In respect of the workmanship, it is absolutely impossible for me to comment on that from photographs, even from very high quality, very hi-res images I would hesitate to comment.

I will say that to my eye the overall impression (pawakan) is one of stiffness and imbalance, it looks as if the maker was working at the edge of his ability. But I could be incorrect in this comment, it could just be the angle of the photo.

Did the sculptor of this keris also forge the bakalan?

Hi Alan, thanks for the info. The empu made the whole bilah.
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Old 8th July 2021, 09:11 AM   #6
A. G. Maisey
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Thank you Anthony
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