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Old 23rd March 2021, 08:56 PM   #1
AHorsa
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Default Untouched Cabasset

Hello,

today I got this Cabasset in a bit unusual shape. Its height is 21cm, weight is 1120g.
It seems that it still has its original blackening (as far as I can judge) and to be "untouched". Sadly most of the brass buttons are missing as well as the biggest part of the feather holder.

What do you think how to date it? ~1600 or earlier / later?

Shall I give it some treatment with a bit of oil or leave it as it is? Also conerning the regions of delamination.

Kind regards
Andreas
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Old 23rd March 2021, 09:19 PM   #2
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Lovely Item, well done.
I would leave as is personally.

I can and do repair items http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26784 but for this I would see no point as I would not want to take it back to original shape with the brass fittings etc. I would be able to give it a good go but it will never be right and your eye will always be drawn to the repair.

Even to oil would not help in my mind as it is stable and oil would not serve any real purpose.

Leaving items a month before doing anything is one of my rules, fools rush in (me being the fool on many an occasion in my past, before i learned a bit of patience)

Keep well,

Ken
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Old 24th March 2021, 09:45 AM   #3
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Hi Ken,

thanks for your comment. Only think I take into account is to replace the brass buttons (reversible). The traces of wear I wouldn´t touch. Concerning the oil I guess you are right - as long as it is stored in a dry environment, nothing will happen I guess.
Is this also true for the delamination?

Very nice work you show in the linked thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
Leaving items a month before doing anything is one of my rules, fools rush in (me being the fool on many an occasion in my past, before i learned a bit of patience)
Yes, I guess that is a lessons that most of us collectors had to learn in the beginning of their career

Cheerio
Andreas
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:19 PM   #4
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May i doubt that an item made of plain iron stays stable, out of rust; you should see how fast rust atacks in humid environments ... like in mine, for one. Besides, i guess, oiling a piece gives it a less dull look ... and does no harm, i'd say.
I agree that giving this cabasset an original look by adding back countless components might be senseless but, recreating a sole detail like a PLUME HOLDER would give it back some grace .
... And you may of course take month to reach for decision ... right Ken ? .
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Old 24th March 2021, 04:24 PM   #5
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I disagree I think replacing the brass fittings (and of course the plum holder ) would give it back its original countenance. And in case that the amount of replacements disturbs, they can be removed without a trace. But that of course is subjective (and a lot of work).

If I oil it, is there any risk that the oil undermines the delaminated areas an increase delamination?

What do you think how to date the helmet? It was found in Bavaria - would this fit its origin?

Cheers
Andreas

Update: I just found the copy of a book page in Fernando´s thread #7 here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=cabasset Looking at this I think mine corresponds No 9 which is dated 1st half 16th century. Can it really be so early?

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Old 24th March 2021, 05:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorsa
... Update: I just found the copy of a book page in Fernando´s thread #7 here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=cabasset Looking at this I think mine corresponds No 9 which is dated 1st half 16th century. Can it really be so early?
Yes Andreas, most certainly .
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Old 24th March 2021, 08:38 PM   #7
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If I oil it, is there any risk that the oil undermines the delaminated areas an increase delamination?

The best treatment is to wax it with a microcrystalline wax such as museums use for metals, wood & other textiles. A common brand is called 'Renaissance Wax'. It has the consistency of a paste & a little goes a long way.
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Old 24th March 2021, 09:22 PM   #8
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Yes, British RENAISSANCE WAX seems to be one of solutions. Funny thing, i bought a 200 ml unit of it quite a few years ago but i didn't go along with how it spreads and the aspect it leaves on blades. Probably only my problem; i left it for museum folks, though.
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Old 25th March 2021, 08:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Yes Andreas, most certainly .
Happy to here that!


I wouldn´t use Renaissance Wax on rusty surfaces (as it is partly the case here), as one can´t be sure that it reaches the bare metal surface, even when you heat the metal. But forexample to fix a patina or if you want to touch an objekt regularly, I think it is one of the best solutions.


It seems that some helmets are made from laminated steel, others from single-layer-steel. What´s it all about? Are the laminated helmets lighter? Would be great if someone would explain.

Thanks and kind regards
Andreas
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Old 25th March 2021, 10:55 AM   #10
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good day ,
if I had such an item, then I would wash it gently in a bucket with kerosene, wiping it slightly just with a dishwashing sponge, then after drying, I would apply WD-40 abundantly, and then dry it with a hairdryer. and later the second layer WD ..
it will not damage the helmet in any way, but it will give good protection in microcracks and chips. probably nothing more needs to be done, the subject is very nice ..
with respect
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Old 25th March 2021, 12:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorsa
... It seems that some helmets are made from laminated steel, others from single-layer-steel. What´s it all about? Are the laminated helmets lighter? Would be great if someone would explain...
It would take someone with the due knowledge to explain. But assuming that lamination reduces weight, yours wouldn't be the case, i guess. Its weight only differs 127 grams from mine, a difference which you can consider to be the lack of the rosettes and the plume holder.
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Old 25th March 2021, 12:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmereya
good day ,
if I had such an item, then I would wash it gently in a bucket with kerosene, wiping it slightly just with a dishwashing sponge, then after drying, I would apply WD-40 abundantly, and then dry it with a hairdryer. and later the second layer WD ..
it will not damage the helmet in any way, but it will give good protection in microcracks and chips. probably nothing more needs to be done, the subject is very nice ..
with respect
I use some of those ingredients, but in a different order. First start with an abundant WD-40 bath, wait a while, then use the hard side of a dish wash sponge soaked in WD-40. If rust is already showing an accentuated presence, i use, instead, ultra fine steel wool soaked in WD-40. Then i give it a good wash with water and soap to clean all dirt from the texture depths and after i pass a light layer of mineral (sewing machine) oil.
All this assuming that i am dealing with rust, and in the absence of age patina.
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Old 25th March 2021, 02:11 PM   #13
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Hi Andreas,
you'r cabasset is indeed around 1600, all treatments mentioned can be used depending on the outcome you want.
As it is now the helmet has got a certain charm, found as is with the scars of its age,.
whatever you do to it, its never going to be in top condition and the more you do to it in the form of ad ons the further you will be moving away as it is now.
To me the value of this piece lies in its as found condition, I would wax it , any natural antique wax will do , and rub it a few days later .
The wax will put a coat on the surface sealing it from air and prevent further rusting, after rubbing it the next day it will give a glossy shine.
You can of course restore it, but ask yourself this : what will adding new parts bring to an helmet with an old rustik look like this one ?
Whatever you decide I wish you success with the outcome.
kind regards
Ulfberth
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Old 25th March 2021, 03:16 PM   #14
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Thanks for the further comments!
Of course - if doing some restaurations on it, it will lose its untouched character. This is why I would only do reversible restaurations. But anyway, in the foreseeable future I won´t find the time for it.

While the linked book (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=cabasset #7) dates it to the first half 16th century (1500-1550), I found some examples in the internet dated the same period, and others dated around 1600, as Ulfberth also mentioned.

This one is attributed to south Germany (perhaps Landshut), which would fit to my one beeing found near Munich:
https://worcester.emuseum.com/object...4104f5cc&idx=3
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Old 25th March 2021, 04:09 PM   #15
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What is 50 years more or less than five centuries ? .
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Old 26th March 2021, 12:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
What is 50 years more or less than five centuries ? .
Well, true
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Old 27th March 2021, 05:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmaddock
Lovely Item, well done.
I would leave as is personally.

I can and do repair items http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26784 but for this I would see no point as I would not want to take it back to original shape with the brass fittings etc. I would be able to give it a good go but it will never be right and your eye will always be drawn to the repair.

Even to oil would not help in my mind as it is stable and oil would not serve any real purpose.

Leaving items a month before doing anything is one of my rules, fools rush in (me being the fool on many an occasion in my past, before i learned a bit of patience)

Keep well,

Ken
This post should be made a sticky. Best advice ever.
i wouldn't touch a thing about this helmet. Adding rivets, etc. to this piece would only make its appearance much less honest.
If, however, an urge to fix something antique is too strong, go wash your wife's car or paint a fence in your yard. That usually takes care of my 'restoration' urges.
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