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Old 9th February 2021, 08:12 PM   #1
cel7
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Default "mongolian" mace

Hi there,

Bought this mace this week. Not sure what it is but according to the seller it would be a 19e century Mongolian mace. Does anyone have any idea what it really is?
Thanks!
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Old 9th February 2021, 08:14 PM   #2
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Forget to mention that it's very heavy and massive...
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Old 9th February 2021, 10:00 PM   #3
David R
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Wrong page for Mongolian, needs to go to ethnic forum.... but I have my doubts. It might have been made there.... but when?
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Old 9th February 2021, 11:55 PM   #4
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Ball Mace: Looks Islamic - Turkish/Persian/Middle Eastern/Mughal?.

Similar to mine: For illustration only:
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David R
Wrong page for Mongolian, needs to go to ethnic forum.... but I have my doubts. It might have been made there.... but when?

I also have my doubts. It is forged but the decoration seems to sharp for an old weapon.
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Old 10th February 2021, 06:27 PM   #6
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The pommel and handle are Indians, if the head is Indian
then it should be Indian...
Google Indian mace

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Old 10th February 2021, 07:33 PM   #7
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I believe these are of modern manufacture.
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Old 20th February 2021, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel7
Hi there,

Bought this mace this week. Not sure what it is but according to the seller it would be a 19e century Mongolian mace. Does anyone have any idea what it really is?
Thanks!
its a modern made fantasy item. probably indian.. more than likely..

there is still maces and flails made in inner mongolia.. although probably native inner mongolian population are pretty much under sever pressure or worse from the chinese government so knife making and traditional handcraft making is probably severely curtailed at this point or just outright suppressed... .. there some collectors in the chinese version of the internetz showing recently made inner mongolian maces, flails,, boomerangs, axes and throwing flails that that are still made and used that people have collected but information on the items is pretty limited. although it appears the ongls there still make them...... .. they have several types.. maces generally have bronze cast cog type heads.. some have a curved handle to facilitate throwing.. they are designed to be used from a horse.. the axes too and the look very much like the socketed axes from 1000snsds of years ago.. the boomerangs come in several forms as to the throwing flails.. some boomerangs have a heavy impact end with metal on it.. all items sort of overlap to a degree with some maces with handles long like axes.. or clublike boomerangs with a hand grip and a weighted end. or some throwing sticks with lead weighted heads or axes with small heavy heads like a mace almost.. ect.... . ect.. the all seem to be designed as both hunting tools and weapons interchangeably, to be both thrown and to be struck form the hand .. .. the throwing flails are used to kill wolves based on picture sive seen.. .

in mongolia none of these weapons survive and even probably look totally exotic to outer mongolians there who have used superior firearms and russian traded weapons since at least the late 18th century when compared to thier southern brethren ... just the fact that mongolians in outer mongolia used a decent flit lock mechanism of their own division while their southern brothers used a matchlocks like tibetians in style sort of tells that one group was much more keen on guns than the other.. im not sure exactly why none of these traditions survived with the outer mongolians.. but even pictures from the 1890s of khalkha and buryat mongols .. it shows mostly russian shashkas.. muskets maybe bows for hunting and sport, even lots of russian made axes.. rather than local products.. .... ect.. seems that such items were abandoned very quickly by one group and retained very late by the other..

anyway back to the maces none ive seen have iron hafts.. they are wood, heads normally they can be forged fluted iron but more common bronze or brass.. some have a twist to the fluting.. heads are small and handles quite long.. some have lanyards on them in the manner of kazakh/kyrgiz axes once had..
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Old 28th February 2021, 07:10 AM   #9
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modern or recently made inner mongolian maces and flails.. made for throwing and for using on horseback.. hence many are curved.
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Old 28th February 2021, 06:55 PM   #10
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Fascinating that they still use these.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Fascinating that they still use these.
yeah, well the chinese government removed their firearms and theres little cultural echange between the inner mongolian and outer mongolian ethnic groups in the last 150 years or so.. so many of these things stayed current.

in outer mongolia even during communism guns very very common.. both old antique locally made flitlock muskets and russian and soviet made rifles.. protection and hunting was done with modern arms,
because of this bow hunting totally died knife making became rare.. axe making dissapeared totally.. .. in inner mongolia the when the area was transferred to the chinese post ww2 there was mass confiscations of firearms (and eliminations of said owners many times) the russian, german and japanese modern guns were all seized as were most matchlocks (different from outer mongolias flint guns) only afew loyal minions were permitted by the chinese to aquire .22 toz rifles inexchange for marmot pelts being designated commercial hunts.. (theres also another lil rodent they shoot for fur... cant remember its name.. like a small marmot) this was in the 50s so i think since then exceptionally few have had access to newer guns. this meant that traditional archery survived as a practical thing not just a game like their brothers over the boarder.. all these aspects along with persecution from the chinese authorities, mass settlement on their land and mass killings organised by the government in the 40s, 50s and 60s caused the populations, which are already fragmented by ethnicity to stick more closely to old customs and to remain largely outside of the chinese state, which is/was viewed as a hostile alien occupier .. .. so old and very archaic things survived.. just like in tibet, many people still wear swords or long knives in rural isolated areas or hunt with slings and crossbows because their muskets are taken or the punishment is to high if caught..

theres probably better ways to kill a wolf but killing it with a throwing flail, a mace or a throwing axe is the way they always did it and so such things survive. ive shown mongolians the inner mongolian boomerangs and for them its as alien as a boomerang is to an englishman.. so theres a big cultural devide between the two collections of groups..
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:12 AM   #12
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oh forgot to mention the bronze heads are lost wax castes and theres distincy patters. some are cogs.. some a dodecahedron sort of shape abd some are a rope know ball like a monkeys fist knot.. its made with cords of wax to for a patter that looks like its a rope knot but it is of bronze
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