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Old 29th March 2024, 09:48 PM   #1
Pendita65
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Default Another Bali Keris

Hi I wanted to share my latest Keris that I won in an auction. I think itís an nice 19th century one and only had some minor issues like a loose gandar and a little bit of rust to the blade. I glued the gandar with fish glue and used a bronze bristle to remove the surface rust. Most of the washing with Warangan is still there. I wrapped the blade in tissue that I soaked with WD40 wrapped it in clingfoil and put it away for a few days. Then with a bronze bristle and some dentist picks I was able to remove the rust. Then with break cleaner I cleaned it of the penetrating oil and applied Keris oil cendana on the blade.
The sewer I cleaned in a bath of vinegar it has real stones in it and is of an nice old quality.
Can someone explain how the groves in the hilt at the back of the top are called?
It has an nice contrast pamor blade dapur lurid and hilt cecekahan.

Regards Martin.
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Old 29th March 2024, 11:56 PM   #2
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That's a very nice Bali keris.
I can't really comment too much on your cleaning job s you photo quality isn't really showing the details very well, but they are good enough to show you acquired a good keris.
Here is a thread that might give you more understanding of your hilt form.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=87972
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Old 30th March 2024, 12:46 AM   #3
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Hi David,

thank you for the link it gives more understanding of the hilt, and yes i could not wait to post some pictures so artificial light is not always the best and also my phone takes less good pictures compared to my canon camera.

Regards, Martin
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Old 30th March 2024, 01:38 AM   #4
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A nice keris, in fact a very nice keris.

I think you will find the "stones" in the uwer are pastes.
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Old 30th March 2024, 09:27 AM   #5
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Hello Mr. Maisey,

what you mean with pastes?, that they are made from glass? At least they are not plastic and the red stone has a spot that looks like agate.
And I am happy i was able to buy it in the auction together with the Keris in the first picture that somehow looks like a Frankenstein.

Regards, Martin
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Old 30th March 2024, 12:34 PM   #6
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Yes, glass, but that's being a bit simple.

Paste glass is leaded glass & in antique jewellery it is quite collectable.

The little imitation stones that we find in Bali & Jawa keris dress are seldom true pastes, they're usually glass.

In Balinese art & ornamentation the end effect is important, the way that effect is achieved is not important. I have a royal quality Balinese keris hilt, 22K gold, exquisite workmanship, some of the stones are natural some are paste, one is glass, then there is one diamond also.

The uwer on this keris is of a type that virtually always has glass enhancements. Whether the stones are natural or imitation has absolutely no effect on value at all, unless those stones are of jewel quality, which is something rarely encountered.

The keris in the first photo is pretty OK too, wrongko looks like Tegal, looks like it needs a pendok.
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Old 30th March 2024, 05:46 PM   #7
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Mr. Maisey,

The Tegal warangka and the gandar doesn't fit well my guess is that it is a replacement and the Keris does not fit so well. That's why i called it a Frankenstein.
But the warangka is a nice model, so it need some attention.

Regards, Martin

and yes i do understand your explanation off the pastes.
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Old 30th March 2024, 09:02 PM   #8
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Yes Martin, I can see the poor fit of gandar to atasan, but does the keris fit into the scabbard acceptably?

In an older keris it is not at all unusual for a gandar to be replaced with another that does not fit so well, this is usually hidden under a pendok & if necessary the gandar itself is wrapped with cloth, or sometimes only paper.
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Old 30th March 2024, 09:40 PM   #9
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It looks like the Gandar on Tegal Keris is backwards. If that is the case, you need to separate Atasan and Gandar to see if the blade fits.
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Old 30th March 2024, 10:40 PM   #10
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True.
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Old 31st March 2024, 10:06 AM   #11
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Hello Martin,

The Bali keris is a very nice one, well done!

The Tegal keris is worth a similar effort!

Regards,
Detlef

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Old 31st March 2024, 08:52 PM   #12
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Hi Detlef,

Itís Martin. 😉

And will take some better pictures from the Tegal and share it.

Regards, Martin
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Old 1st April 2024, 08:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendita65 View Post
Itís Martin. 😉

And will take some better pictures from the Tegal and share it.

Regards, Martin
Sorry, when I wrote I just spoke with my brother Michael on the phone!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 1st April 2024, 11:53 AM   #14
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Detlef,

No worries I understand.


Regards, Martin
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Old 2nd April 2024, 06:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
A nice keris, in fact a very nice keris.

I think you will find the "stones" in the uwer are pastes.
Hello Mr. Maisey,
i got the message from a member of the Dutch Keris that the scabbard with bands is most likely from Lombok and he gave the following description for the Keris: Dapur Jalak Ngore. Pamor Aiq Nglek. Pelet Mbelang Sapi (cow spot)

now i have a question, where Keris from Lombok also polished like they did in Bali in the 19th Century?

Regards, Martin
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Old 2nd April 2024, 09:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendita65 View Post
Hello Mr. Maisey,
i got the message from a member of the Dutch Keris that the scabbard with bands is most likely from Lombok and he gave the following description for the Keris: Dapur Jalak Ngore. Pamor Aiq Nglek. Pelet Mbelang Sapi (cow spot)

now i have a question, where Keris from Lombok also polished like they did in Bali in the 19th Century?

Regards, Martin
Hi Martin. I'm sure Alan will be along to answer you, but i'll just add my two cents. I suppose if you have a strong need to categorize, this dhapur is very similar to Jalak Ngore, but understand that is a Javanese dhapur. In Bali they may very well have their own name for this form. I could be wrong, but i don't believe the Javanese Jalak Ngore would have such a defined center ridge as your blade.
I also have a keris that has one rattan band. I have never considered that made it a Lombok blade, but i'm not counting that out as a possible indicator. Does anyone else have knowledge of this. As for blade polish, i have seen blades identified as Lombok both with and without a polished surface. So i think it can go either way. I can't really tell for sure, but it looks like your blade was probably polished at some point.
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Old 2nd April 2024, 09:21 PM   #17
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Martin, the names used for keris dhapurs & pamors & everything else change from place to place & from time to time, nothing is graven in stone.

In the keris group that your Dutch friend associates with, this description might very well be accepted as correct, however, it is not correct in Bali, and probably can never be given a "correct" Balinese description for the simple reason that keris culture in Bali is not as structured as it is in Jawa, and as I have already commented, names change.

This description is given in Javanese, but even then, it is only approximate, jalak ngore is a Javanese dhapur, but it does not have ron dha nunut, I do not know the name of this dhapur in Balinese, I doubt if anybody does.
The pelet motif in Balinese could be taken as Mbelang Sampi (not sapi), but to my mind that's stretching things a bit, still, if we must give it a name this will fit. The word belang in Javanese means white spots or white speckling, in Balinese the spots of speckling do not need to be white, in Balinese, the prefix "m" is virtually inaudible in speech & it turns the root into a transitive verb.

I do not know pamor "aiq nglek", in fact, I do not know these two words in either Javanese or Balinese & cannot find either in any of my language resources. However, this pamor is a wos wutah type, & in Bali most people would give it as "ilining warih" = "flowing water".

"aiq" might be a typo for "air" = water; the root of "nglek" could be "klek" or "lek", klek I do not know, cannot find; "lek" has a number of meanings, the one I know relates to a visible moon.

The use of rotan bands to hold two parts of a scabbard together is pretty general throughout Maritime SE Asia, in Jawa/Bali it usually indicates that the scabbard has been made in a rural area. There was a Balinese colony on Lombok up until about 1894, keris made or used in this colony are usually indistinguishable from keris made on the mainland.

Yes, Balinese keris blades in Lombok were treated as Balinese blades on Bali itself.

Martin, a lot of things that out-of-society collectors believe about keris are not necessarily what people in the originating society believe, however, if these somewhat variant understandings permit people within a particular group to communicate with one another, it is really no big deal if there is some variation in understandings.

Its all part of the Name Game.

EDIT

Just now speaking with a native speaker of Javanese & I have been told that the word "klek" means for something to break with a snap, Javanese is a strongly onomatopoeic language, so words often sound like the thing that they refer to.
But I still cannot make any sense of this pamor name you've been given.

Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 2nd April 2024 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2024, 10:09 PM   #18
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Mr. Maisey,

thank you so much, for this elaborate explanation it brings more in depth knowledge that educates me. It's a joy to gain more insight about the Keris.

Regards, Martin
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Old 2nd April 2024, 11:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Hi Martin. I'm sure Alan will be along to answer you, but i'll just add my two cents. I suppose if you have a strong need to categorize, this dhapur is very similar to Jalak Ngore, but understand that is a Javanese dhapur. In Bali they may very well have their own name for this form. I could be wrong, but i don't believe the Javanese Jalak Ngore would have such a defined center ridge as your blade.
I also have a keris that has one rattan band. I have never considered that made it a Lombok blade, but i'm not counting that out as a possible indicator. Does anyone else have knowledge of this. As for blade polish, i have seen blades identified as Lombok both with and without a polished surface. So i think it can go either way. I can't really tell for sure, but it looks like your blade was probably polished at some point.
Thanks David,

only saw the message of Mr. Maisey, and yes the blade was nice polished in the past and i am happy it has still allmost 80% of its darknes of colouring in the past with realgar .

Regards, Martin
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Old 3rd April 2024, 06:12 AM   #20
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Sheesh that Bali keris is very nice, Martin.
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Old 3rd April 2024, 07:09 AM   #21
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From memory, Pamor Aiq Ngelek does appear in Lalu Djelegga's book, and could be a Sasak term.
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Old 3rd April 2024, 08:30 AM   #22
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Yes Gustav, it does, P.233.

I know no Basa Sasak at all, but in Balinese "ngelek" is to swallow.

Aiq? not the vaguest.
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Old 3rd April 2024, 09:18 AM   #23
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An online dictionary says, aiq means water in Sasak language.
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Old 3rd April 2024, 12:20 PM   #24
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From Bentuk Dan Gaya Keris Nusa Tenggara Barat:

Aiq Ngelek (Sasak) = Air Mengalir (BI) = Flowing Water
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Old 3rd April 2024, 05:11 PM   #25
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Yes, you will find numerous sources for pamor Aiq Ngelek online. I have no idea if this is a recent name or one that goes back a ways, but most descriptions tie it specifically to keris Lombok. Here is one such description:
"The image of the pamor Aiq Ngelek makes a series of pamor lines in the middle of the blade, they connect each other here and there. Sometimes, these pamor lines are flanked by a pamor motif like Kulit Semangka. Pamor AIQ Ngelek, long time has been very popular on Lombok. Therefore you find it very often and is always on the straight keris.
The magical power of the pamor Aiq Ngelek brings sincerity.
Pamor Aiq Ngelek can be both, pamor Mlumah and Tiban, and also Miring and Rekan. It can be both, a selected as also a not selected pamor motif. Pending on this it can be suitable for everyone or not."

Here is a link to a 14 year old thread where Gustav identified a blade as having this pamor and the name source being Sasak.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11425
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Old 3rd April 2024, 08:34 PM   #26
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This pamor is made by forging a mlumah bakalan into a miring bakalan & then forging to shape without using protective plates.
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Old 3rd April 2024, 09:48 PM   #27
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Thank you all for the info on my Bali/ Lombok Keris.

I made a new thread around the Tegal Keris I got in the same lot at auction.
Would love to know more about it.

Regards, Martin
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Old 3rd April 2024, 11:25 PM   #28
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So maybe this keris is Aiq Ngelek if in Lombok, or Ilining Warih if in Bali, or something else if in somewhere else?
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Old 4th April 2024, 05:30 AM   #29
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That pamor didn't come through real clear, so hopefully this pic is better.
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Old 4th April 2024, 11:20 AM   #30
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On Keris with Pamor Aiq Ngelek which I have handled so far, the appearance of Pamor Miring in the middle of blade is created by the quite high middle ridge and the couple of mlumah layers contained in that ridge. The exageration of it could be one feature indicating Lombok origin of a blade.
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