Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th June 2011, 02:34 PM   #1
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default Balato for comments.

This is a bit of a mystery to me. Never had one before.
The hilt needs some repair and I'm beginning to think I've taken on more projects than I can cope with.
The hilt appears to have cracked straight up the middle. Presumably it's glued in place as it seems firm, although the crack is visible and filled with some kind of soft wax. Needs re-doing.

Anyway, I know nothing so please feel free to enlighten me.
Also, notice the carbon flaws in the laminations of the blade.

Thanks
Gene
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Atlantia; 12th June 2011 at 06:52 PM.
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 02:48 PM   #2
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,298
Default

Hi Gene,

interesting piece, seems to have a very short blade. I would be careful with reglue the broken handle since the wood have a nice patina. How thick is the blade? Others with more knowledge will be able to tell you more about this sword.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 05:08 PM   #3
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Gene,

interesting piece, seems to have a very short blade. I would be careful with reglue the broken handle since the wood have a nice patina. How thick is the blade? Others with more knowledge will be able to tell you more about this sword.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,

Here's a picture of the blade spine.
Thanks
Gene
Attached Images
 
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 08:26 PM   #4
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 398
Default

Hullo everybody,

I would call it a Balatoe Sala.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 08:36 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hullo everybody,

I would call it a Balatoe Sala.

Best,
Hi Amuk,

please can you explain "sala"? I am not sure if I understand the word correct.

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 09:29 PM   #6
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Amuk,

please can you explain "sala"? I am not sure if I understand the word correct.

Regards,

Detlef
Guten tag Detlef,

I am neither a Nias linguist nor a Nias smith.
The actual word 'sala' has many meanings depending on context etc. I don't know how/why 'sala' was bestowed on this blade.
All I know is that Balatoe Sala is a utility tool, 'golok' to the Soenda.
The other type is Balatoe Tologoe, used for ceremony/war.

Tschuss,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 09:45 PM   #7
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Guten tag Detlef,

I am neither a Nias linguist nor a Nias smith.
The actual word 'sala' has many meanings depending on context etc. I don't know how/why 'sala' was bestowed on this blade.
All I know is that Balatoe Sala is a utility tool, 'golok' to the Soenda.
The other type is Balatoe Tologoe, used for ceremony/war.

Tschuss,
Selamat malam Amuk,

thank you very much for reply. I have thought you mean something different since I have had in mind the word with nearly the same writing in bahasa indonesia.

Thank's again,

Detlef

For all others: salah in bahasa indonesia means wrong or false.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 09:53 PM   #8
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Amuk,

'Utility tool'
You're breaking my heart tonight buddy!
Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:09 PM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Amuk,

'Utility tool'
You're breaking my heart tonight buddy!
Best
Gene
Nothing wrong by this IMHO. It is just meant that this baloto is for every day use.

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:17 PM   #10
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,320
Default

Can you explain why this should be an utility tool???
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:23 PM   #11
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Nothing wrong by this IMHO. It is just meant that this baloto is for every day use.

Detlef

LOL,

TBH many of this sort of item are multi purpose, aren't they?


What attracted me to this in the first place was actually the shape of the hilt. Looks like a stylised bird head.

Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:30 PM   #12
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Amuk,

'Utility tool'
You're breaking my heart tonight buddy!
Best
Gene
Hullo Gene,

Cheer up mate. You're just suffering from what I refer to as 'Occidental Syndrome'; a predispostion to view items as a weapon.

Do you believe that when Harold gathered an army to replenish his weary one on his march southward to meet William, that all the 'soldiers' were fully-equipped with regulation-issue and battle-ready?

I also recall the story of a Scottish farmer and his sons who held off an invading horde until help arrived. THEY used everyday tools; Plough and Yoke, I believe.

Generally, utility tools can be used as weapons. This, I think, is true globally, especially where the people are mostly farmers/peasants.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:50 PM   #13
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,143
Default

Nice example, with a very nice handle.
I would wish to get my hands on "utility tools" like these now and then.

Here is a thread with some info.
The hilt is a stylised "Lasara" / a myhtical beast/dragon ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=lasara
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:53 PM   #14
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hullo Gene,

Cheer up mate. You're just suffering from what I refer to as 'Occidental Syndrome'; a predispostion to view items as a weapon.

Do you believe that when Harold gathered an army to replenish his weary one on his march southward to meet William, that all the 'soldiers' were fully-equipped with regulation-issue and battle-ready?

I also recall the story of a Scottish farmer and his sons who held off an invading horde until help arrived. THEY used everyday tools; Plough and Yoke, I believe.

Generally, utility tools can be used as weapons. This, I think, is true globally, especially where the people are mostly farmers/peasants.

Best,

ROTF!!!!!

Thank you for that diagnosis Doctor.
'Occidental Syndrome'..... Can I get a pill for that?

Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2011, 10:55 PM   #15
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Nice example, with a very nice handle.
I would wish to get my hands on "utility tools" like these now and then.

Here is a thread with some info.
The hilt is a stylised "Lasara" / a myhtical beast/dragon ?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=lasara
Ah, 'Lasara' Thanks Asmotif

Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2011, 10:23 AM   #16
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Ah, 'Lasara' Thanks Asmotif

Best
Gene
Hullo Gene,

'Lasara' on Nias, as I understand it, is the name for 'naga' (serpent/dragon) as well as for ship/boat. This may allude to Chinese origins.
BTW ..... there are a number of villages there called 'Lasara this' or 'Lasara that'.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2011, 06:19 PM   #17
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Thanks Amuk.

It's an interesting stylised version of the usual hilts on these isn't it?
Does anyone know the significance? I've not seen one like this before?
Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2011, 08:57 AM   #18
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,320
Default

Gene,

Could you please post an image of the handle made from the front.
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2011, 10:02 PM   #19
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Gene,

Could you please post an image of the handle made from the front.

Sure thing
Attached Images
  
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2011, 10:25 PM   #20
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,143
Default

Really lovely handle.
Also the brass ferrule is wonderfully detailled.

As for the shape... could it be the battle droid Lasara
Attached Images
 
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 03:09 PM   #21
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Sure thing
Thanks Gene, very stylish handle, I love it!


The reason why I asked you to show me a picture from the front, was to look at the shape. In this case it's getting narrower in the middle of the "beak".
There are also handles which are getting wider along the middle....

So here some Nias swords with "similar" handles which are getting narrower.
Source: the Leiden museum.....
Attached Images
  
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 03:29 PM   #22
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Thanks Gene, very stylish handle, I love it!


The reason why I asked you to show me a picture from the front, was to look at the shape. In this case it's getting narrower in the middle of the "beak".
There are also handles which are getting wider along the middle....

So here some Nias swords with "similar" handles which are getting narrower.
Source: the Leiden museum.....
Ah, I see Excellent, thanks for the examples.
How unusual are they compared with the more elaborate carved head hilts?
Best
Gene
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 03:31 PM   #23
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Really lovely handle.
Also the brass ferrule is wonderfully detailled.

As for the shape... could it be the battle droid Lasara

ROTF!! "Roger Roger"
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 03:49 PM   #24
Maurice
Member
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Ah, I see Excellent, thanks for the examples.
How unusual are they compared with the more elaborate carved head hilts?
Best
Gene
I've no idea.
I think the more elaborate carved ones are much more wanted in collections though!

Maurice
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 07:15 PM   #25
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
I've no idea.
I think the more elaborate carved ones are much more wanted in collections though!

Maurice
Could be that the elaborate are more wanted. No idea why, because personally I like them when they get simple and more stylistic.

The one Maurice bought recently really appeals to me.
As well as the 2 examples we saw last week at Bronbeek depot (check out Borneology at myribalworld.com)
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 07:18 PM   #26
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,143
Default

Ps. the crack. Is it only on one side of the handle ??
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 07:30 PM   #27
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Ps. the crack. Is it only on one side of the handle ??
Yeah, the crack runs all the way round. The hilt may have been in two parts at some point. There is a gap of about 2mm all the way round filled with some kind of brown wax.
Doesn't look like a tough fix though. It would look fine if it was re-done carefully and the crack was closed.
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 07:50 PM   #28
Atlantia
Member
 
Atlantia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
Default

From an old thread, some other hilt types including like mine.
Interestingly, they have material wrapped around them too.
Significance?
Attached Images
 
Atlantia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2011, 10:38 PM   #29
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
Yeah, the crack runs all the way round. The hilt may have been in two parts at some point. There is a gap of about 2mm all the way round filled with some kind of brown wax.
Doesn't look like a tough fix though. It would look fine if it was re-done carefully and the crack was closed.
Yes, it will certainly be worth the effort closing the crack.
It will also give you the possibilty to clean and preserve the tang.
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.