Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 17th January 2023, 10:38 PM   #1
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 413
Question Identification help please

Here is one of my mystery knives. The seller thought it might be from Chile. I do see the Spanish influence, for example in the stacked hilt and quilions. I know next to nothing about Chilean knives. After searching the forum, the only examples I had found are quite different.

I donít have exact measurements since the knife is currently in storage after a move. I can give you this description:
  • Hilt: Stacked bone, iron/nickel and stone of various thickness in overall hexagonal shape
  • Hilt: circular insets in thicker stacks are metal, unidentified
  • Hilt is fully hand sized, nearly barrel shaped but not as pronounced as one finds in other daggers and knive
  • Blade: well forged, diamond cross-section, wedge sharpening on both sides.
  • Overall: hilt and blade appear similar in wear and tear. This is not a novelty or tourist knife. It is built to be useful.

Any ideas?

Dave A.
Attached Images
     
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2023, 10:28 PM   #2
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 413
Question Chilean(?) mystery dagger

Wow, 118 views on the first post and no ideas? Letís try again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveA View Post
Here is one of my mystery knives. The seller thought it might be from Chile. I do see the Spanish influence, for example in the stacked hilt and quilions. I know next to nothing about Chilean knives. After searching the forum, the only examples I had found are quite different.

I donít have exact measurements since the knife is currently in storage after a move. I can give you this description:
  • Hilt: Stacked bone, iron/nickel and stone of various thickness in overall hexagonal shape
  • Hilt: circular insets in thicker stacks are metal, unidentified
  • Hilt is fully hand sized, nearly barrel shaped but not as pronounced as one finds in other daggers and knive
  • Blade: well forged, diamond cross-section, wedge sharpening on both sides.
  • Overall: hilt and blade appear similar in wear and tear. This is not a novelty or tourist knife. It is built to be useful.

Any ideas?

Dave A.
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2023, 11:56 PM   #3
David R
Member
 
David R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,014
Default

The problem here is that it rings too many bells, a nice dagger but so many places it could be from.
David R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 01:56 AM   #4
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,811
Default

The little V-shaped protrusion from the blade adjacent to the guard is reminiscent of older Chilean corvos. Similarly the stacked hilt is consistent with some Chilean knives. I can see why the seller thought it was from Chile. But, as David R says, it rings bells for elsewhere also.


Interesting knife.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 02:45 AM   #5
pbleed
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 88
Default

I think we are trying too hard. Certainly, it COULD be from lots of places, but IF I had only one choice, I'd bet its 1940s(mebbe30s) American machine shop craft. It remind me of some of the high end WWII stuff done by aircraft maintenance guys, but this is WAY over the top.
PBleed
pbleed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 09:27 PM   #6
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 413
Default Chilean stacked hilts

Ian,

Thanks for your comments. I have been searching online for more examples of Chilean knives other than corvo. Stacked hilts especially. I did a Google image search just on the hilt that came back with basically nothing. Can you point me towards straight Chilean knives or any similar stacked hilt patterns?

I agree the the protrusion (name?) from hilt over the forte of blade is distinctive. It seems as much functional as decorative, that is, to oppose fracture of the blade if forced sideways. I think Iíve seen this on older Spanish and/or Italian weapons but the source eludes me. Again, if anyone sees examples of something similar please point it out.

Dave A.
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2023, 10:18 PM   #7
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 413
Default Machine shop craft? I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbleed View Post
I think we are trying too hard. Certainly, it COULD be from lots of places, but IF I had only one choice, I'd bet its 1940s(mebbe30s) American machine shop craft. It remind me of some of the high end WWII stuff done by aircraft maintenance guys, but this is WAY over the top.
PBleed
This is fascinating. I have never heard of such a thing.

I have the knife in front of me now. Arguing against your machine-shop thesis is the mis-alignment of the dots on the middle red stack alone, and all the dots in a line from pommel to guard. These are clearly eyeballed, not precision drilled.

The layers are also not squared. The hilt has smooth, curved transitions between adjacent layers to achieve the overall shape.

I notice now the inlaid red and black dots are some type of crystalline stone. Might be glass, but doesn’t look that translucent under light. The

The pommel does resemble a lug nut somewhat. That argues for recency. The number and arrangement of facets on the pommel, however, does not look like any lug nut I’ve seen. The are redundant and impractical. Looking at it carefully right now, I might be persuaded it is a modified lug nut, with the distal facets added, by hand or machine grinding, for decorative effect.

The blade is inconsistent with the machine shop origin idea. I wager a skilled smith made the blade. The steel is pattern welded. The diamond cross section tapers distally from forte to tip. It is very well made.

This knife was also used, not for show. There are easily observed wear patterns on the hilt where a thumb would be placed. It also feels better in this grip. That takes a fair amount of handling to achieve. Although the blade is sharpened (very sharp) on all sides, it appears that it was re-sharpened over time in a chisel grind oriented towards right hand cutting. The tip is slightly bent and has other signs of wear as well as repair.

It is possible the blade is from a sword, but the wear and age of hilt and blade seem contemporary to each other. It also just ¬ďfeels¬Ē right in the hand and the balance is perfect. I think it is of one piece.

I love a mystery. 😁

Dave A
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chile, dagger

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.