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Old 21st May 2023, 04:14 PM   #1
Copycat
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Default Monogram sword/sabre

Hello All,

Could anyone help me identify the monogram on the pictured sword?

Any other information on this sword is also appreciated.

Kind regards,
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Old 21st May 2023, 04:47 PM   #2
fernando
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Moving this one to the Euro Armoury. Hopefully members in that forum will ID your monogram.
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Old 21st May 2023, 05:08 PM   #3
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Some matches for the monogram AC/CA and crown in 19th c. Saxony - I don't know if this is consistent with the style of sword, not my period!

Albert I and Queen Carola of Saxony
Charles Alexander, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach
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Old 21st May 2023, 09:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copycat View Post
Hello All,

Could anyone help me identify the monogram on the pictured sword?

Any other information on this sword is also appreciated.

Kind regards,
Hallo ,
The crown is a "Kurhut" ,which is the heraldic symbol for a electoral prince of the holy roman empire of german nations."CA"could belong to King Karl I.from Bavaria.Karl Albrecht from Bavaria of the house of Wittelsbach ( born 1697, died 1745 ),was electorial prince of Bavaria from 1726 to 1745.The style of the sword fits in the first half of the18th.century.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 12:28 AM   #5
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Agree with Akanthus, this is a mid 18th c. saber from one of the Holy Roman principalities/electorates and seems Austrian. I do not have references at the moment for these but these I associate with forces contemporary to the notorious Pandours of those times.

This monogram CT, identified as to Carl Theodor (Charles IV) elector of Palatina and Duke of Juelich-Berg Dec 1742;
Later Dec1777 Charles II elector of Bavaria.
On a yataghan saber with staghorn grip plates in hirschfanger style hilt.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 08:28 AM   #6
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The monogram "CA" stands for Clemens August Ferdinand Maria Hyazinth, Duke of Bavaria (* August 16, 1700 in Brussels[1]; † February 6, 1761 in Koblenz). He was as Clemens August I. Archbishop of Cologne from 1723 to 1761 and thus at the same time Elector of the Holy Roman Empire , ruler of the associated archbishopric and the neighboring states of Recklinghausen and Westphalia.
This sabre has absolutely nothing to do with pandures or other Austrian troops. It was a sabre of the household troops of the Archbishop of Cologne with an uncorrect hilt.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 09:17 AM   #7
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The monogram "CA" stands for Clemens August Ferdinand Maria Hyazinth, Duke of Bavaria (* August 16, 1700 in Brussels[1]; February 6, 1761 in Koblenz). He was as Clemens August I. Archbishop of Cologne from 1723 to 1761 and thus at the same time Elector of the Holy Roman Empire , ruler of the associated archbishopric and the neighboring states of Recklinghausen and Westphalia.
This sabre has absolutely nothing to do with pandures or other Austrian troops. It was a sabre of the household troops of the Archbishop of Cologne with an uncorrect hilt.
Yes that's it .It seems to be Clemens August.The crown shows stylized ermine tails what is a sign for a prince elector crown.So it should be one of the seven .Eduard Wagner shows in his book " Hieb - und Stichwaffen" a sword, that looks very similar .He describes it as Bavarian.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 09:26 AM   #8
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Thank you all for the extensive and detailed comments. I could not find this information.

This being a household troops sabre of the Archbishop of Cologne with an uncorrect hilt with the monogram of Clemens August is most sound.
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Old 22nd May 2023, 01:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akanthus View Post
Yes that's it .It seems to be Clemens August.The crown shows stylized ermine tails what is a sign for a prince elector crown.So it should be one of the seven .Eduard Wagner shows in his book " Hieb - und Stichwaffen" a sword, that look
s very similar .He describes it as Bavarian.
Here the picture :
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Old 22nd May 2023, 03:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corrado26 View Post
The monogram "CA" stands for Clemens August Ferdinand Maria Hyazinth, Duke of Bavaria (* August 16, 1700 in Brussels[1]; † February 6, 1761 in Koblenz). He was as Clemens August I. Archbishop of Cologne from 1723 to 1761 and thus at the same time Elector of the Holy Roman Empire , ruler of the associated archbishopric and the neighboring states of Recklinghausen and Westphalia.
This sabre has absolutely nothing to do with pandures or other Austrian troops. It was a sabre of the household troops of the Archbishop of Cologne with an uncorrect hilt.

Thank you for the info on the monogram Udo! Please pardon my exuberance in my comment on Austrian and Pandour forces, a long favorite topic of mine. As this saber is 'similar' to the wide variety of weapons used by these private security forces who became auxiliary forces to the armies of Maria Theresa the association 'seemed' possible. As always with the ersatz weaponry that speculatively might have been used, it is hard not to romanticize, so the clarification is very much appreciated.

Your identification of the monogram on my sword posted was wonderfully appreciated as well , I would likely never have found that key information which as done here, opened the entire scope of proper identification of my sword.Masterful!
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Old 22nd May 2023, 04:17 PM   #11
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In case you should be interested: There is a useful book on monograms, 218 pages, more than 5800 monograms listed, ISBN 3-924861-78-1. 3rd edition 2003, price ca 20.-
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