Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th July 2005, 05:24 PM   #1
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default Tjikeroeh swords

Just received this sword/parang/sabre/golok.
This is obviously European inspired but was it made for Europeans/Dutch or local Sundanese use?

Michael
Attached Images
    
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 05:31 PM   #2
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,566
Default

It looks 100% Dutch to me, quite handsome. Tim
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 05:46 PM   #3
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Hi VVV

I can definately say it's a Indonesian sword made for the Dutch East Indies Company. I have a spear point Bowie/Hunting knife and it is marked identically as yours but with a 1907 date. I will post a picture of it when I get home tonight. By the way your sword is lovely and is an excellent quality example infact I think the same smith made both yours and mine.


Lew
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 06:24 PM   #4
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,466
Default

This is an example of Dutch Colonial swords made in western Java, mostly in Tjikeroeh, during the period from about 1890 to 1920. [This style of blade is similar to a Dutch military saber from the same period -- I will post pictures in the next day or so (the clipped point is very similar).]

The broad fuller and foliate engravings are characteristic of this style. Hilts have full length tangs, secured with a threaded nut at the end. Handles tend to be bone or antler with a brass guard and ferrules. Scabbards are plain, with black wood and brass accents at the throat and toe.

Here is another, slightly different example:








Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 06:49 PM   #5
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,466
Default A couple of old posts on these swords

Here are two old threads that discussed these swords -- several pictures included. I have attached pictures of two more that I have.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001139.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002112.html




Ian.

Last edited by Ian; 7th July 2005 at 08:57 PM.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 08:43 PM   #6
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,041
Arrow Sometimes

East gets mistaken for West .
I'm not 100% positive on this example ; but you can see the similarities to Tjikeroeh and Philippine knives .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...542483831&rd=1
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 11:19 PM   #7
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Thanks all for the comments and to get the background confirmed from more knowledgeable forumites.
Look forward to see pics of your examples and thanks also for the links to the older threads.

Michael
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2005, 11:52 PM   #8
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,041
Smile Okay

Here's my example complete with battle scars .
Golok .
Attached Images
 
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th July 2005, 10:14 AM   #9
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,566
Default

I have found this thread very interesting. It is shows the spread of decorative motifs through Malaysia and Indonesia. Untill now I had a feeling because of the decoration, that this was a tourist golok even though it had been used. I only post a picture to compare the shift in style. Tim
Attached Images
  
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2007, 08:05 PM   #10
bigfatbilla
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Default Tjikeroeh swords

Just looking on you form I have a sword just like VVVs, Can you tell me where I can get it valued or would someone have some idea of it value.
Attached Images
   
bigfatbilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2007, 08:32 PM   #11
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 437
Default

Hello everybody,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
... mostly in Tjikeroeh, during the period from about 1890 to 1920 ...
Ian,
How sure are you about the beginning period? I am told that there is a similar klewang with 1773 stamped on the blade.

Regards.
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2007, 09:02 PM   #12
jmings
Member
 
jmings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tebbetts, Missouri, USA
Posts: 49
Talking

I drool from envy. Thank you, my friends for sharing those lovely pictures.
jmings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2007, 10:22 PM   #13
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,466
Default Dutch klewang

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul
Hello everybody,



Ian,
How sure are you about the beginning period? I am told that there is a similar klewang with 1773 stamped on the blade.

Regards.
Hi Amuk Murugul:

The Dutch klewang, on which the clipped-blade saber forms of these Tjikeroeh swords are based, was placed in service by the Dutch military in 1898. So it is likely that the locally copied versions post-date that time.

I do think that the manufacture of European style knives and swords, with antler hilts and other "Westernized" features, arose about that time. These are among the very few swords and knives in SE Asia that actually carry a date of manufacture. I've not seen any before about 1890, and the most recent in the mid-1920s. The incising of the numbers can be rather confusing sometimes, and a 9 can be confused for a 7 on some inscriptions (one of mine shows a 9 that could easily be read as a 7). I doubt that any of these knives and swords date from the 18th C. -- they look in too good shape to be that old.

Regards,

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 12:43 AM   #14
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 437
Default

Hello everybody,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
The Dutch klewang, on which the clipped-blade saber forms of these Tjikeroeh swords are based, was placed in service by the Dutch military in 1898. So it is likely that the locally copied versions post-date that time...
Ian,

Thank you very much for the information. I really appreciate it. It has made me wary.

Regards.
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 02:02 PM   #15
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,195
Default

These Tjikeroe swords are pretty common in the Netherlands. although the quality varies. The examples placed on this site are very nice.

Personally I feel that the ones that have the western look are probably made as souvernir. mentioning a place and year is something that your normally not see on indonesian weapons.
But also the more indonesian types (with wooden animal like handles) have the name and date, so probably these are also made as souvernir.

I had a nice one last year, I believe it is now in Flavio's collection.
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 05:49 PM   #16
Dajak
Member
 
Dajak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 951
Default

They both made for tourist the dutch and the javanese one that pictured here

There are special javanese ones that are not for tourist I think one was pictured in Zonneveld s Book

Ben
Dajak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2007, 11:32 PM   #17
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 437
Default

Hello everybody,

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
... mentioning a place and year is something that your normally not see on indonesian weapons...
But also the more indonesian types (with wooden animal like handles) have the name and date, so probably these are also made as souvernir...
Assuming Ian is right about the 1890 date for the klewang, that would place it in the second decade of the Aceh War. As the war lasted thirty years, it is conceivable that during this period, KNIL needed a lot more manpower, hence HARDWARE, not only for the war effort, but also to hold the areas in the archipelago it already controlled. It seems likely that they would've tried to source as much as they could, locally.
At the time, in Sumedang Regency (close to KNIL HQ), the adjacent villages of Tjikeroeh and Tjibatoe (NOT the Cibatu of Sukabumi/Bogor of recent fame) were well-known for their foundries. So one or both of them were likely to have been commissioned by KNIL to produce klewang to their specs (which may account for their European-style appearance).
If such were the case, the foundries would have simply continued the VOC practice of marking these klewang with name and year.

As for materials used for the handles: people of the region have traditionally been very utilitarian. Handles have been made from wood, buffalo horn, antler, etc, ... even RHINO HORN (Chinese traders dicovered this and started buying up these weapons just for the handles).

Regards.
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2007, 12:37 PM   #18
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,195
Default

The assumption that these where produced for dutch soldiers fighting in Aceh feels very unlikely. There is a big variation in models and material.
If they were made by an order of the KNIL they would not have this model.

They look more like a so-called 'hartsvanger' a sidearm that was used by hunters in the 1800's

Other option would be private purchase by soldiers for use in the Aceh war.
But they are always find in unused condition and also the model is something that I can not imagine being desired by dutch soldiers.

I have never seen these Tjikeroe waepons on pictures of soldiers from those days.

I really stick to the souvernir option.

Best regards,
Willem

Enclosed some pictures of the one I had last year and I believ to be in Flavio's collection now.
Attached Images
  
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2007, 04:27 PM   #19
Flavio
Member
 
Flavio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Italia
Posts: 1,243
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Enclosed some pictures of the one I had last year and I believ to be in Flavio's collection now.



Yes, Willem you're right!!!!
Flavio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 02:42 PM   #20
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,195
Default

PS. last weekend I saw a miniature Tjikeroeh sword.
Approx 25 cms total length.

Maybe made in commssion for the smal KNIL soldiers ?
It strengthened my opnion that they are mainly tourist items.
But some of them are really well made with beautifull materials as this thread clearly shows. Sure worth collecting
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th February 2007, 02:56 PM   #21
VVV
Member
 
VVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
PS. last weekend I saw a miniature Tjikeroeh sword.
Approx 25 cms total length.
Willem,

Here is one of mine that's 27 cm, excl. scabbard.
Did it look the same?

Michael
Attached Images
   
VVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2007, 09:38 AM   #22
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,195
Default

Dear Michael,

No, the 'miniature' I saw last weekend was the European style, with a bone handle and black wood plain scabbard. with metal mountings.

This one is fun too.
We almost have material for a 'coffeetable book' about Tjikeroeh swords
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 10:04 AM   #23
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 403
Default Golok from the village of Tjikeroeh

Here is a golok from the village of Tjikeroeh in Java, Indonesia, c. late 19th - early 20th century. The overall length is 20 ½ inches. The blade length is 15 inches. The edge is recurved in shape, with a "fat belly" at the point of maximum percussion. A single large fuller is found on both sides of the blade along the spine. The fuller is decorated in an okir pattern typical of swords from Tjikeroeh and neighboring villages. The back side of the blade is slightly concave in shape with a width of ¼ inch tapering distally to the point. The blade edge smoothly curves upward to the point and the back slopes down in nearly a straight line to the point. The hilt is carved hardwood in a typical design that is representative of a parrot. There are glue indications of a relatively recent repair to the hilt. The scabbard wood is slightly different indicating that it is a replacement for the original (if any).

More pictures at http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...ok-tjikeroeh1/
Attached Images
   
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 10:11 AM   #24
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 403
Default Golok Tjikeroeh Hybrid

Here is an interesting example of golok sword made in the village of Tjikeroeh, Java, during Dutch Colonial times (1888 − 1920). The shape of blade is typical of Java. The guard however is probably based on Dutch hunting sword models. Nevertheless, it is not a copy of a European sword. This one, like the others of the period, are artistic interpretations that are impressed with unique Javanese design attributes. The hilt, of bone, features brass ornamentation at foot and toe with a threaded nut securing the full tang blade. The guard, also of brass, features a single rounded acorn finial and a brass clamshell, typical of European swords in this period. The style of this hilt is borrowed from Hirschfanger. The total length is 41cm, the blade alone is 29cm long. The scabbard is of leather over wood and relatively unusual.

More pictures at: http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...ok-tjikeroeh2/
Attached Images
  
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 10:21 AM   #25
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 403
Default Golok from Tjipatjing

This is a heavy golok from the West Java village of Tjipatjing. It was likely made special order for a foreigner, probably a Dutch worker or soldier, who was living in what was at the time a Dutch colony. The hilt is made of bone with flat steel disk-shaped pommel that is secured by the tang with typical flattened end. The hilt including guard is 5 ⅜ inches long. The s-shaped guard, also steel, is 3 ⅛ inches wide with opposite facing quillons. The blade measures 17 inches in length along the center line. The blade is evenly 1 ¼ inch wide prior to the tip which is a drop point, having an equal convex curvature of the back and edge towards the point. There is an unsharpened false back edge. The style of this hilt is borrowed from Hirschfanger.

The thickness has a slight distal taper from ¼ inch at the base to ⅛ inch prior to the tip, measured along the top of the blade. A large fuller with okir-style engraving is found on both sides of the blade, each measuring 14 ½ inches. A second, thin fuller is found between the large one and the back edge on both sides.

The name of the hamlet where this sword was created is enscribed on one side of the blade, "Tjipatjing" along with the year, 1904.

More pictures at: http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...al-tjipatjing/
Attached Images
  
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th April 2017, 10:31 AM   #26
DaveA
Member
 
DaveA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California.
Posts: 403
Default Klewang from Tjicatjing

This is a klewang with a European-style grip and a clamshell langet on the front of the cross guard. A klewang blade is somewhat unusual to find from this era c. 1910. The hilt is made of antler with brass pommel and finishings and is 6 inches in length (excluding clamshell). The s-shaped guard, also brass, is 4 ¾ inches wide with rounded "acorn" finials. The blade measures 21 ¼ inches in length along the bottom, 19 ½ inches along the top. Typical of klewangs, the blade broadens from 1 ⅜ inches wide at the base to 2 inches at the tip. The thickness has a slight distal taper from ¼ inch at the base to ⅜ inch at tip, measured along the top of the blade. A large fuller with okir-style engraving is found on both sides of the blade, each measuring 13 inches. The name of the hamlet where this sword was created is enscribed on one side of the blade, "Tjicatjing" along with the year, 1910.

More pictures at: http://atkinson-swords.com/collectio...onial-klewang/
Attached Images
   
DaveA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2021, 07:27 PM   #27
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 449
Arrow

chikeru / tjikeroeh....


I do see quite a lot of threads from 2005 to 2015
some interesting, some guessing and some well...

just managed to lay my hands on 2 of them: a small and a big one
First I was advised on literature:

Keris Jawa (Haryoguritno) de Kris I, (Tammens), Traditional weapons from the Indonesian Archipelago (van Zonneveld), Keris Indonesia, Keris Bali (Neka) en Tafsir Keris (Bpk Junus)

Tjikeroeh ( since 1972 Cikeruh in modern Bahasa Indonesia) is a dessa east of Bandung, Java where around the turn of the 20th century in the period between 1890 to 1920 production of weapons took place ,specially cold weapons.
Tjikeroeh at that time, just like Ttjipatjing (Cipacin) which is closeby, famous for its production of, not only local but also western European arms like sabers, knives and daggers.
A huge misunderstanding is the fact that they only produced for local KNIL ( Dutch Indies Army) or as substitute for local Dutch residents working for the railraod, government or even tourists.
A huge varity from working knives like simple bado to a fancy golok, parang, european klewang and (bowie-like) knives and dagger, with handles from bone, horn or wood.
Scabbard mostly (dark) wood, sometimes with copper, nicely decorated and place of manufatoring and date engraved. ( Tjikeroeh or variances like TJKRH, TJIKE, TJIKR, TJKR)

Regardless the “export nature” many were very good sword, due to the use of spring steel !
Attached Images
   

Last edited by gp; 18th November 2021 at 07:49 PM.
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2021, 07:34 PM   #28
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 449
Default

hereby my small one, a so called hartsvanger or Hirschfänger


Totale length 26.5 cm incl scabbard
knife 23.5 cm
blade 14.5 cm lang 2 cm wide
grip 9.5 cm
ferrule 1.5cm pommel 1.5 cm
bone grip 6 cm copper crossguard 6 cm
scallop shell 3 cm 1.3 narrow
locket 1 cm
Attached Images
            
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2021, 07:35 PM   #29
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 449
Default

some more
Attached Images
   
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2021, 07:41 PM   #30
gp
Member
 
gp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 449
Default

now the bigger one

49 total, scabbard 38 cm, chape 6 cm, locket 4 cm
scallop shell 4 cm 3 narrow
bone grip 7.5 cm pommel 2 cm
knife 42 cm blade 30.5 cm with a width of 3- 2.5 - 4 cm
drawing on the blade : 7.5 and 6 cm, reverse side 8 en 7 cm
Attached Images
          
gp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.