Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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Jim McDougall 16th April 2021 12:59 AM

Scottish Belt Pistol
 
4 Attachment(s)
I have had this pistol for more years than I can recall, and as firearms are not really a topic I know much on, I would appreciate any insight from you guys who know them well.

Obviously it is a belt pistol (clip on side) and by JD Dougall of Glasgow (maybe a relative ? :)so is certainly Scottish.
The lion face on the butt is interesting.
I have no idea the bore.

Any ideas?

corrado26 16th April 2021 08:05 AM

James Dalziel Dougall, gunmaker and fish-hook maker 1830-1875, Glasgow, 23 Gordon Street

Jim McDougall 16th April 2021 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26
James Dalziel Dougall, gunmaker and fish-hook maker 1830-1875, Glasgow, 23 Gordon Street

Thank you so much Udo!! I figured this pistol c. 1840's but seems with that range likely later.

fernando 16th April 2021 06:23 PM

Very nice pistol; solid ... and in pristine condition.
Easy to figure out the bore; introduce your index finger into the barrel ... and take a guess ;) .
Sorry Jim, couldn't hold it :o .
Looking at the barrel and by what we see out there of Dougall, must be a large caliber, like a 54 bore (.44) :cool: .

fernando 16th April 2021 06:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
... Amd those would be proof marks ? ...


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Jim McDougall 16th April 2021 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Very nice pistol; solid ... and in pristine condition.
Easy to figure out the bore; introduce your index finger into the barrel ... and take a guess ;) .
Sorry Jim, couldn't hold it :o .
Looking at the barrel and by what we see out there of Dougall, must be a large caliber, like a 54 bore (.44) :cool: .


LOL! :) good one Nando!

rickystl 18th April 2021 06:57 PM

Hi Jim

That's a very nice pistol. And appears in good condition. With the exception of the wood grip, it's all metal construction is reminiscent of the earlier all metal construction Scottish pistols. Often, collectors consider Scottish made guns to be rare compared to their British counterparts. There were simply less gunsmiths working during this period.
Your initial guess of the 1840's period was not far off. My guess, with the all metal construction, captured ramrod, and what appears to be a hook-style breech, might place the pistol in the 1850-60 era.
Two questions:

1 Is the barrel rifled or smooth bore ?
2 Is the barrel and breech/plug of the hook-style ? In other words, is there an easy way to unfasten the barrel and simply lift it off the stock ? The breech tang and barrel/plug being seperate pieces ?

Thanks. The pistol, especially if Scottish made, is a nice collectors piece.

Rick

fernando 18th April 2021 07:23 PM

How's that for a pertinent set of questions, Jim ?
C'mon, show us what you are worth ... gun wise :rolleyes: ;) :eek: .

Jim McDougall 21st April 2021 04:56 AM

Thanks very much Rick!
I dont have access to the pistol right now, but I really appreciate your insights!
Actually I was attracted to the pistol because of the obvious notion of ancestral connection...............J.D. Dougall, my name McDougall. My great great grandfather grew up in Glasgow, where the pistol was made.

Very good questions, and I will try to get the answers as soon as I can get to the pistol.

All very best regards
Jim

fernando 21st April 2021 10:44 AM

Jim, for your perusal, and in case you are not yet aware, here is a brief background on the ingenious Dougall (gun makers) family; from where you can pick the member who made your pistol ...

There were six gunmakers in the Dougall family. They were: John Dougall; J. D. Dougall Sr.; and J.D. Dougall’s sons; John Dougall, J. D. Dougall Jr., and Norman Dougall. J. D. Sr. being the inventor of the Lockfast.
James Dalziel (J. D.) Dougall Sr. was born in 1819. His gun making business has its roots in his father’s fishing tackle business. While J. D. Dougall used the 1760 establishment date in his advertising. Boothroyd states that John Dougall (J. D.’s father) started his business in1808 as a fishing and fowling maker, later to specialize in needles and fishing hooks.
The following listing “Fishing & Fowling, Tackle Makers, Dougal John, 83, Tron-gate” appears in The Commercial Directory of Scotland and Ireland 1820-21 & 22. Then moving to 88 Trongate in 1825. In 1830, again relocating to 52 Argyle Arcade and listed and J and J Dougall Fishing-Tackle Manufacturer and Gunmaker.
In 1841, the company name was changed to James D. Dougall, Fishing-Tackle Manufacturer and Gunmaker .

Jim McDougall 21st April 2021 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Jim, for your perusal, and in case you are not yet aware, here is a brief background on the ingenious Dougall (gun makers) family; from where you can pick the member who made your pistol ...

There were six gunmakers in the Dougall family. They were: John Dougall; J. D. Dougall Sr.; and J.D. Dougall’s sons; John Dougall, J. D. Dougall Jr., and Norman Dougall. J. D. Sr. being the inventor of the Lockfast.
James Dalziel (J. D.) Dougall Sr. was born in 1819. His gun making business has its roots in his father’s fishing tackle business. While J. D. Dougall used the 1760 establishment date in his advertising. Boothroyd states that John Dougall (J. D.’s father) started his business in1808 as a fishing and fowling maker, later to specialize in needles and fishing hooks.
The following listing “Fishing & Fowling, Tackle Makers, Dougal John, 83, Tron-gate” appears in The Commercial Directory of Scotland and Ireland 1820-21 & 22. Then moving to 88 Trongate in 1825. In 1830, again relocating to 52 Argyle Arcade and listed and J and J Dougall Fishing-Tackle Manufacturer and Gunmaker.
In 1841, the company name was changed to James D. Dougall, Fishing-Tackle Manufacturer and Gunmaker .


Thank you so much Fernando!! Fascinating detail, and certainly adds great dimension to the circumstances of this pistol.....you are always a super slueth at finding this stuff! Very much appreciated, and will add more on those questions at first opportunity. I am not a 'gun guy' ..but Im learnin':)

fernando 22nd April 2021 11:13 AM

I didn't want to 'bore' you with further details but, these guys were really INGENIOUS.
The (Mc)Dougall blood, you know ;) :rolleyes: .

Jim McDougall 23rd April 2021 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
I didn't want to 'bore' you with further details but, these guys were really INGENIOUS.
The (Mc)Dougall blood, you know ;) :rolleyes: .

Thank you Sir!


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