Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   another dagger but from where ...? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27336)

gp 4th October 2021 10:49 PM

another dagger but from where ...?
 
7 Attachment(s)
total lenght is 50 cm and the scabbard is velvet

what looks strange to me is the horse's expression?

totally different from the Kauhava knives I know...

can any one tell me more ?
it's origin, age, etc....

thnx a lot

greetz from NL

Gunar

Rich 4th October 2021 11:18 PM

Definitely not a Kauhava Puukko :)

TVV 4th October 2021 11:51 PM

It looks Indian to me, in imitation of older horse handle khanjars, though not antique.

Battara 5th October 2021 02:19 AM

I would agree with TVV - from India but not an antique

mariusgmioc 5th October 2021 11:06 AM

Indian or Pakistani, 20th century work, most likely for foreign collector/tourist market.

They are still made these days, usually with low quality pattern welded blades. Just eBay "mughal horse dagger" and you'll see what I mean. Almost all that advertise wootz blades are shameless fakes with pattern welded low quality blades.

gp 5th October 2021 07:59 PM

thnx a lot gents for identifying and clarifying this !

Edster 6th October 2021 03:35 PM

Even though the dagger is not "authentic", I find the horse's expression very appealing from maybe a folkart perspective. Art is really where you find it. Is the horse cast metal or carved wood with metal-like paint under the decorative work?

Ed

gp 6th October 2021 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster (Post 266716)
Even though the dagger is not "authentic", I find the horse's expression very appealing from maybe a folkart perspective. Art is really where you find it. Is the horse cast metal or carved wood with metal-like paint under the decorative work?

Ed

that (horse's expression) is what caught my attention indeed. Rather unconventional but attractive in its own way I dare say.
And the horse cast being complete metal with a reasonable price it was going going gone:)

mariusgmioc 6th October 2021 09:14 PM

I feel the need to straighten up some issues.

These daggers are made in India (and Pakistan) in fairly traditional ways, and are based on historical antique examples.

So, in my opinion they are as authentic as they can be and personally consider them very nice and collectable. They are even "mughal" in style and inspiration.

I like them so much that when I was in India, I bought several as presents for friends.

The problem appears only when they are deceptively sold as "antique" and/or "wootz" and thus become fakes.

Jim McDougall 7th October 2021 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster (Post 266716)
Even though the dagger is not "authentic", I find the horse's expression very appealing from maybe a folkart perspective. Art is really where you find it. Is the horse cast metal or carved wood with metal-like paint under the decorative work?

Ed


I really like this perspective Ed, and perfectly expressed as always.
I have never cared much for the dismissive classification 'tourist' , though I know many pieces are pretty awful in their demeanor. However items made in representation of traditional forms, and themes which are simply trying to carry forward artistic versions of the culture., seem worthy of collection and note.

Edster 8th October 2021 01:11 AM

Thanks, Jim. We agree. Many attractive ethnographic arms worthy of collecting continue to be made to satisfy the collector market when they may be declining as cultural expressions in their native context. The Omani Jambiya and the Sudanese Kaskara are just two examples, maybe Indian arms as well. Is an Omani Jambiya bought in a shop by a traveler in an Omani suq any less "authentic" than the same collected in a remote village, a salon in London or one delivered by Amazon Prime. Of course the quality of workmanship, "new" vs. "old" should be paired with provenance and chain of custody to play a critical part in defining high-end collector value.

Also, many collectors and "appreciators" of fine ethnographic weapons are likely attracted by the artistic quality of the item. For the jambiya it's the scabbard and belt. The swords of Moroland variability of form is in the blade shape. We often go for the bling added by silversmiths and other artists after the functional quality of a weapon has been established. The same holds for the weapons original owner who had the piece embellished to satisfy ego and/or establish prestige. New or old, used or fresh from the craft shop, I believe that it's the quality of the art as we see it that largely defines our attraction.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Ed


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.