Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   XVI th century dagger ? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16648)

Cerjak 6th January 2013 07:10 PM

XVI th century dagger ?
 
5 Attachment(s)
I would like to have opinion about this dagger . It look like to be from the XVI Century but I 'm not expert in those weapons..
I seems it could be used as a tool to repair armor or flintlock because of the small hammer and a kind of screwdriver you could see each side from the guard.
What do you think about this explanation ?
I hope that somebody already seen similar dagger.
Any comment will be welcome.
Cerjak

Atlantia 6th January 2013 07:18 PM

Hi Cerjak,
It seems to have began life as a rapier and been modified to a dagger.
Interesting piece, I agree about the tool mod's on the guard. Almost like a modern survival knife!

Cerjak 7th January 2013 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
Hi Cerjak,
It seems to have began life as a rapier and been modified to a dagger.
Interesting piece, I agree about the tool mod's on the guard. Almost like a modern survival knife!

Hi Atlantia
Many Thank for your comment .
Do you think it could be from the16 th century ?

Kind regards

Cerjak

Atlantia 7th January 2013 09:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak
Hi Atlantia
Many Thank for your comment .
Do you think it could be from the16 th century ?

Kind regards

Cerjak

I'd have thought it was 17thC, but that's just my guess.
I've been thinking about the 'turnscrew' and 'hammer' and I wondered if it might be for maintaining a musket?
It's a very interesting item. I am suprised there hasn't been more comments.
Something of the rapier family. Google some images and you can see the various elements represented.

I haven't found them all in one but there are so many variations.
I'd guess some transitional rapier.
Obviously your's had a knuckle bow.

fernando 8th January 2013 12:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
... I've been thinking about the 'turnscrew' and 'hammer' and I wondered if it might be for maintaining a musket?...

Like those seen in plug bayonets, so called "flint-knapper" ...
(The plug bayonet by R. D. C. Evans)


.

fernando 8th January 2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
I'd have thought it was 17thC, but that's just my guess...

Oh, it sure is an early piece; and modified in the period ... perhaps from a broken blade, to be used as a belt weapon/tool by the the local (or) field smith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia
... Obviously your's had a knuckle bow.

Are you referring to that spot in the pommel ? No too low for a knuckle guard fixation ?
Perhaps Jean-Luc can tell us if it really is a hole for a bar penetration ...

Atlantia 8th January 2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Like those seen in plug bayonets, so called "flint-knapper" ...
(The plug bayonet by R. D. C. Evans)


.

Hi Nando,

Absolutely. Excellent pictoral examples! :)

Atlantia 8th January 2013 02:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Oh, it sure is an early piece; and modified in the period ... perhaps from a broken blade, to be used as a belt weapon/tool by the the local (or) field smith.


Are you referring to that spot in the pommel ? No too low for a knuckle guard fixation ?
Perhaps Jean-Luc can tell us if it really is a hole for a bar penetration ...


Hi Nando,

There is a hole in the pommel which I can't see being for anything but a bar/knuckle-bow.
The position is OK, not too low.

Cerjak 8th January 2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Oh, it sure is an early piece; and modified in the period ... perhaps from a broken blade, to be used as a belt weapon/tool by the the local (or) field smith.


Are you referring to that spot in the pommel ? No too low for a knuckle guard fixation ?
Perhaps Jean-Luc can tell us if it really is a hole for a bar penetration ...

Fernando,
I 'm agree the idea that it was a rapier as previously said by Atlantia
The dagger should be with me for the end of this week I Hope WEe never know with the post office( isn't it Fernando) :D

So ASAP I will post new pics .

Regards

Jean-Luc

BerberDagger 9th January 2013 12:52 AM

Hi Jean Luc,

how are you ? happy 2013 !!!

nice dagger with a broke sword 15th century blade remounted in period for a dagger with a ghotic guard (probably early 15th century) , the pommel is not of the same period but of sure from a 18th century small sword rapier .
Nice dagger . Congratulation .
Berber Dagger
L.

p.s: if my eyes are ok blade is marked with passau wolf ?

fernando 9th January 2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerberDagger
... p.s: if my eyes are ok blade is marked with passau wolf ? ...

Sharp (experienced) eye, Lorenzo ;)
I wouldn't have noticed it ... although it is there :o .

Cerjak 9th January 2013 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerberDagger
Hi Jean Luc,

how are you ? happy 2013 !!!

nice dagger with a broke sword 15th century blade remounted in period for a dagger with a ghotic guard (probably early 15th century) , the pommel is not of the same period but of sure from a 18th century small sword rapier .
Nice dagger . Congratulation .
Berber Dagger
L.

p.s: if my eyes are ok blade is marked with passau wolf ?

Happy new year Lorenzo,

Thank you to bring me those good news ,it is the first time I bought a dagger and I was little afraid and Fernando who has seen the fisrt the pictures was positive about age ,so his good advice had push me to buy it.
I should receive it this week and will check if Ican see this Wolf and will post better pics.
Kind Regards

Cerjak

Cerjak 10th January 2013 12:19 PM

wolf ?
 
1 Attachment(s)
here better pics

Cerjak 10th January 2013 12:26 PM

more pics
 
2 Attachment(s)
mores pics

fernando 10th January 2013 12:54 PM

wolf ?
 
Most certainly !

Pick yours in post #6

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453

Cerjak 10th January 2013 06:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Most certainly !

Pick yours in post #6

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5453


Hi Fernando

But which one it is ?

Cerjak 10th January 2013 06:33 PM

more pics
 
6 Attachment(s)
more pics

Cerjak 10th January 2013 06:34 PM

one more
 
1 Attachment(s)
one more

BerberDagger 10th January 2013 06:35 PM

no easy to tell , it is hard see from photos .... I m not sure is a passau wolf :cool:

I think a little restoration on the blade could show better the mark.
Best
L.

fernando 10th January 2013 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerberDagger
... no easy to tell , it is hard see from photos .... I m not sure is a passau wolf ...

I don't know :o
If there are in this paper 16 different Passau Wolf recordings ... why aren't there any more ? Looks like every smith had his own interpretation of the wolf :shrug:

Cerjak 11th January 2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerberDagger
no easy to tell , it is hard see from photos .... I m not sure is a passau wolf :cool:

I think a little restoration on the blade could show better the mark.
Best
L.

Lorenzo

I don't want to damage this old lady how and with what are you suggest me to restor it ?
regards
Cerjak

BerberDagger 11th January 2013 03:24 PM

Hi Jean Luc,

yes of sure is important preserved it in the condition but a little restoration could be good on this exemple .... if you want i can help you abaut it .... you have my contacts let me known . best lorenzo


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