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Old 11th October 2014, 04:10 PM   #61
Matchlock
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Now here is a really important thing, the brass/"bronze" haquebut barrel cast in Nuremberg in ca. 1535 for Ulrich von Schellenberg.
The authentic 16th century term for the kind of copper alloy used was brass (German: Messing).

Contrary to what the catalog description stated, it is by no means a completely preserved "haquebut", and cannot compare to the uniqe Doppelter Doppelhaken, Nuremberg, ca. 1515-20, preserved in
The Michael Trömner Collection,
and even retaining its original ramrod.


Attachments, from top:
- haquebuts with brass barrels (Messing hagkenpuchsen) in one of the arsenals of Maximilian I, ca. 1507

- the finely preserved haquebut wall gun in the autor's collection





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Old 11th October 2014, 06:34 PM   #62
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- A few views of the dismantled wall gun in the autor's collection

- the Schellenberg barrel
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Last edited by Matchlock : 11th October 2014 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 11th October 2014, 08:19 PM   #63
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Characteristic of the Nuremberg sense of style in the mid-1530's, the barrel is shaped and sectioned like the columns in contemporary archictecture. Reflecting the traditional Nuremberg style seen on the earlier, five-staged barrel of the wall gun in The Michael Trömner Collection, it is divided into four main sections, separated and subdivided by filed moldings, thistle shaped acanthus trefoils (German: Akanthus-Dreipässe) chiseled in high relief, and scales (German: Schuppenfriese).
The acanthus motif is an important element based on the decoration of the capitals of Corinthian columns; Renaissance art renewed the Ancient Greek and Roman styles.

The rear section (German: Hinterstück) is typically square, its beveled edges of ploygonal shape; it comprises
the short base (German: Bodenstück), which is most probably ten-sided or octagonal, and the rear sight cast integrally. Contrary to the usual deep vertical slot, on this barrel, the back sight is pierced horizontally with a small hole.
The location of the
pan for the priming powder marks the beginning of the breech (German: Pulversack oder Pulverkammer). The originally riveted swiveling pan cover is now missing, showing the horizontal slot above the pan, cut for a "rainproof" fit. The crisp chisel marks, used for gouging out the round pan trough (German: Pfannentrog) around the touch hole, denote that this finely wrought barrel saw little use.
As is the case with most large cast-brass/bronze objects, the greenish patina shows some rusty dots in places; these are traces of iron fixings that had to be mounted to stabilize the model during the founding process.

The profusely punched and chiseled Late Gothic/Early Renaissance style of decoration starts at the base of this barrel, showing petulated trefoils (German: gestielter Dreipass) on both sides, and soon lozenge patterns (German: Rautenmuster) are added; cf. the author's thread on the so-called "Monk's Gun":
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...hlight=monk%27s

The rear section also bears the cast and chiseled coat-of-arms (German: Stammwappen), denoting that this piece of finest arts and crafts alike was made by order of, and for, a member of the von Schellenberg family. It is surmounted by the proudly chiseled monogram I.V.R., for Iohann Ulrich Ritter (knight), reflecting the singular position
of its owner.

For decades, Reichsritter Ulrich von Schellenberg zu Kißlegg (1478–1549),Doctor beider Rechte, served both the Habsburg Emperors Maximilian I and Charles V. as an Eques auratus, a Feldhauptmann and Kriegsrat.
The Doctor of Both Laws (Doktor beider Rechte), Dr. iur. utr., meant considering both Civil Law and Canonical Law; Knight of the Golden Spur (H.R.E.) is the English equivalent of Eques auratus (German: Ritter vom güldenen Sporn). Furthermore, he was Captain and War Council.


Accentuated by three grained
scales (German: Schuppenfriese mit gekörntem Grund), the rear section of the barrel changes to a long and edged center section (German: Mittelstück), including two subsections: a shorter two-stage octagonal length, changing to a longer ten-sided section. Typically, the center section shows the smallest outer diameter of the barrel. Its upper surface, originally not covered by the stock, is subdivided and quantized by filed moldings and acanthus leafs; additionally,
flames cut in high relief dart blazing towards the muzzle. In the Gothic and Renaissance sense of style, a gun barrel represents the scary metal embodiment of a sea monster, a serpent, or a mythologic dragon breathing fire; thus, this winding ornament symbolizes the vivid movement of both a serpent and a flame. Moreover, in the superstitious contemporary minds, it was believed to have an apotropaic effect, fending off evil.

Another frieze of moldings marks the forward section of the barrel (German: Vorderstück), the muzzle area (Mündungskopf). It is notably longer than the one of the barrel in the author's collection, which is about two decades older, but retains the basic slightly swamped shape. As the latest Nuremberg stylistic element originating in the early 1520's*, its muzzle is rounded now, and the integral blade foresight has moved a bit to the rear, when compared to pre-1520's muzzle sections.

These stylistic features identified and defined by the author are fundamental for assigning a time line of origin to a gun barrel, and their result will prove to be significantly closer, and safer, than "first half 16th century".



Michael Trömner
Rebenstr. 9
D-93326 Abensberg
Lower Bavaria, Germany
  • Self-established Academic Medievalist
  • Graduated from Regensburg University in 1982
  • Stipendiary recipient and member of the Studienstiftung des deutschen Volkes, Bonn
  • Author of BEHÄLTNISSE FÜR KOSTBARES 1500-1700, 2005
  • M. of the Arms & Armour Society, London since 1991
  • M. of the Gesellschaft für Historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde e.V., Berlin since 1987
  • Expertises in European weapons, ironworks, and furniture of the 14th through 17th centuries
  • Preservation and academic documentation of museum collections
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Old 11th October 2014, 08:36 PM   #64
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Old 11th October 2014, 08:38 PM   #65
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Old 12th October 2014, 02:04 AM   #66
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Old 12th October 2014, 02:37 AM   #67
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Old 12th October 2014, 03:01 AM   #68
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Old 12th October 2014, 03:45 AM   #69
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Old 12th October 2014, 05:39 AM   #70
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Old 12th October 2014, 05:56 AM   #71
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Old 12th October 2014, 06:20 AM   #72
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Old 12th October 2014, 10:39 AM   #73
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Here is a nice link to the Ulrich von Schellenberg hackbut.
press on play for the interesting slide show about the von Schellenberg hackbut gun.

http://slideplayer.us/slide/203796/

best,
jasper

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Old 12th October 2014, 02:55 PM   #74
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Thanks a lot, Jasper,


I have known that video since 2006.
J.D. Julia also put a link on their site.
Sadly, the quality is too poor to judge the rank of the barrel, and the state of condition it was actually in.

The owner and I were in touch until December 2011 but he refused to take high-resolution images.


Best,

Michael
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Old 13th October 2014, 03:56 PM   #75
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As the following definition is basic for the subject of this thread, here is what I have often pointed out since 2008.




Re: BRASS or "BRONZE" barrels?


Material type: Copper alloy

This term should be used for any alloy which appears to include copper. It is only if you know for sure that the item is a particular alloy (e.g. bronze, brass, gun metal, speculum) that you can correctly identify, and term, the item in question.

Most of the time, though, you will be able to identify the alloy only from the appearance, weight and type of object (e.g. leaded bronze for Medieval and post-Medieval cooking vessels, or brass for Byzantine buckets, or bronze for Bronze Age objects, bell-metal for bells, speculum for Roman mirrors, etc etc) and so the identification will not be certain.


Therefore if you do certainly know the type of alloy because you have had a compositional analysis, then it is very important to say this.


Also, keep in mind that the historic and contemporary term for cast-copper alloy barrels was BRASS.




Michael Trömner

Last edited by fernando : 3rd December 2014 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Author's request
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Old 19th October 2014, 06:42 AM   #76
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Michael I hope you are able to work out a solution to this problem, I and many other people will be reading your various posts here for years to come trying to glean as much of the incredibly valuable information you have very generously shared with all of us here, I personally can not thank you enough, years of reading books on the subjects you have discussed here would not replace what you have written.
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Old 30th November 2014, 05:40 PM   #77
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Hello Michael!

Nice to see you back on the forum!

I have a question for you: Do you have any more info on the black steel bow crossbow in post #65? It looks like an auction crossbow.

And thank you for the Hermannstadt crossbow in post #68! Lovely printed design on the bow!
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Old 1st December 2014, 01:18 AM   #78
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As you may have noticed I have been having quite some hard times, and they are not over yet .

I promise you and all the others that I will be back right soon, and as quickly as possible.
Just do let me and my computer take another time-out for about 10 days or so.


Best,
Michael

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Old 2nd December 2014, 12:41 PM   #79
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Michael, you have an email ... and now a PM
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Old 9th December 2014, 07:56 AM   #80
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The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
the doppelhaken of #6, recently sold at Thomas del mar, 3/12 lot 255
best,
Jasper
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Old 9th December 2014, 07:57 AM   #81
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some more
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Old 9th December 2014, 08:12 AM   #82
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The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 256 iron doppelhaken 1537.
small detail there was a big nail hammered inside the pan?!?
best,
Jasper
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Old 9th December 2014, 08:22 AM   #83
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The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 257, Iron doppelhaken, dated second half of the 16th century.
however due to its simple barrel shape and hook construction is probably earlier. around 1500?

best,
Jasper
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Old 9th December 2014, 11:59 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelistromp
The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
the doppelhaken of #6, recently sold at Thomas del mar, 3/12 lot 255
best,
Jasper



Magnificent. The right example for anyone's wishing list
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Old 9th December 2014, 12:53 PM   #85
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yes, this was a unique opportunity for a unique weapon.
from 3 december onwards , I still regret that I did not bid a bit longer on one of the three.
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Old 9th December 2014, 09:39 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelistromp
The Armoury of the Princely House of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, removed from Schloss Langenburg
Thomas del mar 3/12 lot 256 iron doppelhaken 1537.
small detail there was a big nail hammered inside the pan?!?
best,
Jasper
Hi Jasper,


Thanks for posting these!


I will have more on them soon.


The nail to the rear end of the pan on the wall gun dated 1537 you are refrerring to actually is the head of a rivet, the pivot for the swiveling pan cover.

The stock of the brass barel dated 1525 was a bad modern reconstruction. The upper flat of all period stocks was on the same level as the top flat of the barrel; only the rear sight was above that level.
Cf. attachment #4 marked for comparison with the shape of the stock on the piece in the author's collection.
So all that really was actually valuable was the barrel.
The wall piece in the author's collection, which came from that same Hohenlohe-Langenburg provenance, still is the only one retaining both its original stock AND ramrod. In the catalog description attached below, Nicholas McCullough refers to "a Bavarian private collection", mentioning this thread as "Trömner 2009" for the numbering on the hook.


Best for tonight,
Michael
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Old 9th December 2014, 10:05 PM   #87
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Atts. #9 and 10 depict the arsenal numbering on the piece in the author's collection.
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Old 9th December 2014, 10:16 PM   #88
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The remaining details, and author's photos in the Hohenlohe Castle from 2000.
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Old 9th December 2014, 10:23 PM   #89
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Another contemporary brass barreled Doppelhaken, Nuremberg, still in the Hohenlohe Collection, retaining its original though damaged oaken stock.
Please note that the upper line of the butt stock is exactly on the same level as the top flat of the barrel.
Author's photos.
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Old 9th December 2014, 10:57 PM   #90
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The Nuremberg Doppelhaken dated 1537, when still in the long exhibition hall of Hohenlohe Castle.
Contrary to the the opinion uttered in Thomas Del Mar's catalog description, the author is convinced that the stock was the original.

The barrelsmith's mark struck three time in the Gothic tradition was identified and termed by the author as that of the Nuremberg worksphop of the "Meister mit den gekreuzten Pfeilen" (Master of the Crossed Arrows).
It belonged to an obviously very prolific workshop which is known to have concentrated on the manufacture of cranequins for crossbows from at least the 1520's.
In 40 years of research, the author has documemted 16 cranequins in museums, private collections, at dealers and auction houses, the earliest of them ca. 1520-25; the earliest dated cranequin struck with this mark, 1532, formerly was in the author's collection and is now in a Bavarian private collection, together with other cranequins from the same workshop, dated 1540 and 1545 respectively.

From ca. the mid-1530's, that workshop seems to also have manufactured wrought iron barrels.
The barrel of another, almost identical wall gun still preserved at Schloss Hohenlohe bears the same mark and identical date 1537 - please see atts. to follower post.


Author's photos.
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Last edited by Matchlock : 10th December 2014 at 01:23 PM.
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