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Old 2nd September 2008, 07:25 PM   #1
Jim McDougall
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Default Thank you Lee, and welcome everybody!

I would like to thank Lee for reopening this forum, which I believe will be an outstanding asset to coincide with our other well represented forums. I think he has well expressed the reasons we have really needed to add a forum which will allow better scope in discussing the history and development of many weapon forms which may technically fall out of the ethnographic heading.

In many cases ethnographic weapon forms have often been directly influenced by ancient weapon forms, and as we all know many trade and captured weapons of European origin have entered the armouries of many cultures in many instances.

There are so many weapons that I look forward to seeing in discussion, from rapiers to 'mortuary' swords; from the military sabres of Eastern Europe to thier counterparts in Great Britain and the rest of Europe; basket hilts and thier development from Northern Europe to England and Scotland, and of course so much more.

I'm also really looking forward to the outstanding and extremely broad knowledge of our members which clearly includes these topics in thier scope. I believe we can advance the study of these weapons here just as we have with the many topics in ethnographic fields, much of it pioneer work, and I have always been proud to be associated with such expertise.

Thank you Lee, and Ed and welcome everybody!!!
Lets get busy!!!
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Old 2nd September 2008, 07:48 PM   #2
Henk
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This promises to become a great forum! I'm looking forward to the lessons of our experts and the marvelous pictures of outstanding weapons.
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Old 2nd September 2008, 08:31 PM   #3
Jens Nordlunde
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Congratulations Jim,
I tried earlier, but the forum was not opened yet. I am sure you will do very well moderating this forum.
Jens
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Old 2nd September 2008, 10:40 PM   #4
fernando
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CONGRATULATIONS, JIM

Fernando
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Old 3rd September 2008, 04:38 AM   #5
Jim McDougall
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Thanks very much Henk, Jens and Fernando!
You guys are great!!
I'm really looking forward to working at this with Ed and Lee and finally having a forum where we can really learn more on these important weapons.
All the best,
Jim
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Old 3rd September 2008, 11:15 AM   #6
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Congratulations, Jim. I'm sure you'll drive this forum with wise and steady hand
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Old 3rd September 2008, 12:00 PM   #7
fernando
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Default Allow me to post the (almost) first piece

Allow me to have the honour of being be the first member to post a piece in this Forum ... just for memory sake.
Not a pretentious specimen, rather an action piece; a Portuguese infantry officer sabre, from the period of Dona Maria II, circa 1843, based on the 1822 Britsh pattern.
Its robust blade is 78 cms. long, 7,5 m/m thick and 32 m/m wide at the forte.
The guard is embelished with the Portuguese royal crest.
This will be a deja vue for Jim, as he knows the majority of my non ethno pieces, wich eventually i showed him some time ago by direct email.
I hope the other members will find some little interest, though.
Fernando
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Last edited by fernando : 3rd September 2008 at 12:39 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 3rd September 2008, 12:34 PM   #8
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So i did it all wrong
Besides not having been the first one to post a piece, i should have opened a new thread with my theme, instead of opening a reply here.
Do you think it is possible to move it to a new thread ?
... Or should i just forget it ?
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Old 4th September 2008, 10:41 AM   #9
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Bravo Jim and Lee ,
I have often argued that European weapons should be represented in an Ethnographic weapons forum. Afterall some ethno weapons have trade blades, a number of weapon designs were heavily influenced by 'invading' (trading ?) colonialists (and vis versa) ...and of course it gives some sort of context to the weapons tribesmen faced when Europeans suddenly 'turned up' on their doorstep.

Regards David

PS Very nice sword Fernando
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Old 4th September 2008, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
... I have often argued that European weapons should be represented in an Ethnographic weapons forum. Afterall some ethno weapons have trade blades, a number of weapon designs were heavily influenced by 'invading' (trading ?) colonialists (and vis versa) ...and of course it gives some sort of context to the weapons tribesmen faced when Europeans suddenly 'turned up' on their doorstep ...


I quite agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by katana

PS Very nice sword Fernando


Tank you David,
I have read your wishlist, the other day, and noticed that some of your tastes are similar to mine.
By 1796 pattern sword, do you mean the "light" one or the "heavy" one ?.
I saw a heavy one recently in a flea market, with some wear, certainly full of history ... most probably from when the Brits were around here, during the Napoleonic invasions. But as i gave priority to my hand cannon, offered by the same seller at the same time, i didn't buy such nice sword. This fair takes place every second Sunday. If it is still there next time, i may well go for it.
Concerning the light version, i will open a thread with an excavated specimen, that resembles somehow such pattern.
Fernando
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Old 4th September 2008, 07:18 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=katana]Bravo Jim and Lee ,
I have often argued that European weapons should be represented in an Ethnographic weapons forum. Afterall some ethno weapons have trade blades, a number of weapon designs were heavily influenced by 'invading' (trading ?) colonialists (and vis versa) ...and of course it gives some sort of context to the weapons tribesmen faced when Europeans suddenly 'turned up' on their doorstep.
ENDQUOTE


Very well said David! Those very factors have long been the reason to comingle the weapons of many of the international powers, both civilian and military with those of native weapons in various cultures. While including these in the focus on certain ethnographic weaponry certainly gave perspective, these various civilian and military forms could not receive the proper investigation and discussion in the history they themselves carried.

I began collecting military swords many years ago, and eventually became intrigued by the weapons that often returned home with soldiers from many colonized places, and truly the comprehensive representation of the weapons of all sides was fantastic.

While I still truly love the study of ethnographic weapons, I have realized that with the European arms and armor, there was so much left to learn and discover. In many instances there has been far too much complacency left with profoundly important weapon forms, and too often I have seen incredibly outdated ideas still around concerning them.

With the knowledge of the membership here that has established so many advances in the study of ethnographic weapons, it is certain that the same will be applied here to vastly broaden our scope, and comprehensively develop the important study of arms and armour as a whole.

In addition to the participation of the membership here, I'm really looking forward to that of the countless readers who have interests in these weapons and have lurked these forums for some time. I invite all of them to bring thier weapons and questions to the forum....as always, we learn together!!!

All best regards,
Jim
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Old 4th September 2008, 07:23 PM   #12
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Allow me to have the honour of being be the first member to post a piece in this Forum ... just for memory sake.
Not a pretentious specimen, rather an action piece; a Portuguese infantry officer sabre, from the period of Dona Maria II, circa 1843, based on the 1822 Britsh pattern.
Its robust blade is 78 cms. long, 7,5 m/m thick and 32 m/m wide at the forte.
The guard is embelished with the Portuguese royal crest.
This will be a deja vue for Jim, as he knows the majority of my non ethno pieces, wich eventually i showed him some time ago by direct email.
I hope the other members will find some little interest, though.
Fernando


Absolutely beautiful piece Fernando! Can you repost on a new thread? This is worthy of its own discussion absolutely as it represented a pattern form that became internationally used.

Thanks very much,
Jim
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Old 4th September 2008, 07:28 PM   #13
Jim McDougall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Congratulations, Jim. I'm sure you'll drive this forum with wise and steady hand


Thank you so much Marc! I'm really looking forward to your input and have always looked forward to your posts which display outstanding knowledge on Spanish swords, especially those which diffused into the vast colonial empires of Spain and Portugal.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 5th September 2008, 01:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Thank you David,
I have read your wishlist, the other day, and noticed that some of your tastes are similar to mine.
By 1796 pattern sword, do you mean the "light" one or the "heavy" one ?.
I saw a heavy one recently in a flea market, with some wear, certainly full of history ... most probably from when the Brits were around here, during the Napoleonic invasions. But as i gave priority to my hand cannon, offered by the same seller at the same time, i didn't buy such nice sword. This fair takes place every second Sunday. If it is still there next time, i may well go for it.
Concerning the light version, i will open a thread with an excavated specimen, that resembles somehow such pattern.
Fernando


Hi Fernando ,
out of the two I would say the heavy one, a true Napoleonic version would be very nice indeed......unfortunately out of my price range ...unless I find a nice 'sleeper'...

Living in hope
David
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Old 5th September 2008, 01:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
[QUOTE=katana]Bravo Jim and Lee ,
I have often argued that European weapons should be represented in an Ethnographic weapons forum. Afterall some ethno weapons have trade blades, a number of weapon designs were heavily influenced by 'invading' (trading ?) colonialists (and vis versa) ...and of course it gives some sort of context to the weapons tribesmen faced when Europeans suddenly 'turned up' on their doorstep.
ENDQUOTE


Very well said David! Those very factors have long been the reason to comingle the weapons of many of the international powers, both civilian and military with those of native weapons in various cultures. While including these in the focus on certain ethnographic weaponry certainly gave perspective, these various civilian and military forms could not receive the proper investigation and discussion in the history they themselves carried.



In addition to the participation of the membership here, I'm really looking forward to that of the countless readers who have interests in these weapons and have lurked these forums for some time. I invite all of them to bring thier weapons and questions to the forum....as always, we learn together!!!

All best regards,
Jim


Hi Jim ,
thank you for your comments, I think a good number would agree with your sentiments. I hope also that 'those that lurk' will become 'those that post'
I am sure there are 'unanswered questions' out there, just needs someone to post them.

Kind Regards David
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Old 5th September 2008, 01:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
Hi Fernando ,
out of the two I would say the heavy one, a true Napoleonic version would be very nice indeed......unfortunately out of my price range ...unless I find a nice 'sleeper'...

Living in hope
David


The one i saw is within anybody's price range ... i just didn't want to buy two things at same time ( my wife was watching ).
I just have to take a second look to ( specialy) the grip; it was in a poor condition ... hoping is not too critical.
Scabbard and blade are allways under controll ... more or less rust ... more or less cleaning.
Fernando
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