Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 20th July 2016, 06:25 AM   #1
Green
Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 159
Default Keris exhibitions in Patani and Jogja

Perhaps some of you who are nearby or can travel might be interested to come to these two keris exhibitions.

1) In Patani Province (Southern Thailand) 29-30 July 16
Translation:
Programs

Keris Exhibition
Keris discussion
Keris cleaning
Keris making demonstration
Original malay traditional attire exhibition

2) National Exhibition of post Independance keris
26-28 August @ Jiwangga Spiritual Resort, Jogjakarta, Indonesia

Exhibition, awards and stalls to sell keris and related items.
Attached Images
  
Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2016, 03:24 AM   #2
Laowang
Member
 
Laowang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W
Posts: 52
Default

Thanks for the post, Green. Are you planning on attending the Patani exhibition? I would love to see some photos of the keris exhibited, given that Patani is the home of keris tajong & coteng.
Laowang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2016, 02:59 AM   #3
Green
Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 159
Default

Yes, I will be attending patani exhibition and most probably the one in jogja too.
Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2016, 03:22 AM   #4
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,519
Smile

Photos please....
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2016, 03:16 PM   #5
Green
Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 159
Default

Rick;

Yes, I will try to take pics and upload here .
Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2016, 05:18 PM   #6
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,519
Thumbs up

Wonderful!
Thank you so much Green.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2016, 10:37 PM   #7
Laowang
Member
 
Laowang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W
Posts: 52
Default

Much thanks, Green. Looking forward to seeing them.
Laowang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2016, 07:30 PM   #8
Green
Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 159
Default

i've uploaded the pics of the keris exhibition into my flickr site (non commercial and free from advertisements)... here https://www.flickr.com/photos/35749...157671914196945

there are many interesting kerises particularly tajong and chenok/choteng, and a few with obvious mismatched parts and some blades look like they need a good cleaning.
Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2016, 08:37 PM   #9
Jean
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,000
Default

Hello Green,
Thank you very much for the nice & detailed pics, a very interesting exhibition for the Malay kris lovers although the display could be better IMO.
Regards
Jean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2016, 09:38 PM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Wow, thank you very much for sharing.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd August 2016, 10:07 PM   #11
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,516
Default

Green a question on the spelling you have used:-

is it "chenok/choteng'

or "cenok/coteng" ?

Thanks.

Very interesting photos, thank you.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 12:12 AM   #12
Laowang
Member
 
Laowang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W
Posts: 52
Default

Wow! Much thanks, Green. A much more extensive & comprehensive set of photos than I would have expected, or hoped for. Almost as good as being there.

As you noted, some mismatches, some blades that could use better care, and as Jean noted, the method of display isn't particularly conducive to appreciating individual keris. That being said, overall quite a gathering. The whole definitely much greater than the sum of the parts.
Laowang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 02:14 AM   #13
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,659
Default

Hi Green,

We need you to upload these pictures directly to this site please.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 05:07 PM   #14
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,860
Question

Hello Jose,

those pics are numerous and amount for over 130MB so batch processing will be needed to reduce bandwidth.

If Nik agrees though, it might be more productive to discuss especially noteworthy pieces in separate threads?

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 05:14 PM   #15
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,860
Arrow

Thanks a lot for your efforts, Nik!

Even with a "don't touch" sign next to the pieces, I would not dare to exhibit crowded tables like this to the general public...

BTW, from your ample experience with local collectors, can you possibly comment on how acceptable surface rust is on such keris from a local POV? Some keris are apparently relatively well maintained with only limited rust dusted over the surface while others do show extensive crusts of active rust and probably extensive corrosion.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 06:36 PM   #16
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Jose,

those pics are numerous and amount for over 130MB so batch processing will be needed to reduce bandwidth.

If Nik agrees though, it might be more productive to discuss especially noteworthy pieces in separate threads?

Regards,
Kai

I would agree with Kai that it might be a bit much to upload ALL these images to the site. I was going to suggest a select few of the nicer examples. There are many images in there that are either unnecessary for our discussions or repetitive of the same weapons.
It would be nice to get a good representative collection of them up here though. The problem we have with links like this Nik is that eventually these galleries seem to go away for one reason or another and then any discussion of the shown weapons becomes difficult without the visual examples.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2016, 06:39 PM   #17
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
BTW, from your ample experience with local collectors, can you possibly comment on how acceptable surface rust is on such keris from a local POV? Some keris are apparently relatively well maintained with only limited rust dusted over the surface while others do show extensive crusts of active rust and probably extensive corrosion.

I was wondering the same thing. The event was advertised as offering cleanings, but some of those blade would need more than a quick acidic bath to remove what appears to be years of rust and corrosion from neglect.
I see a few really nice keris in there that seem to be wasting away.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 02:03 AM   #18
Rafngard
Member
 
Rafngard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Minneapolis,MN
Posts: 158
Default

Wow. Just wow.
This collection of pics is stunning.

Thanks,
Leif
Rafngard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 04:46 PM   #19
Green
Member
 
Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 159
Default

1) To answer Alan's Q about the correct spelling first... I am not sure which is the right spelling Coteng/Choteng cenok/chenok... modern spelling has done away with 'h' but the pronounciation is exactly the same for both version... just like jogjakarta/yogjakarta etc...

2)with regards to the uploading the pics here, I did consider that but went for the later option of uploading many pics on flickr, so that people who are new to keris will have a much better overall feel about the variety of the keris shown...

3)to upload that number here would be v tedious as i need to resize etc...

4) if i were to choose a few examples, the problem is which ones and what aspect to highlight,...there are too many points of discussion... rusty blades, mismatch blades/hilt/scabbard, particularly good examples?..etc...

5) for many of the collectors in this region they prefer to keep blades in rusty condition rather than overcleaning and abused of blades like what most of westerners seem to prefer... overcleaning is considered a big no no and devalue the item greatly.

From my limited experience and observation, they'd rather keep the blades un-cleaned and some even prefer it that way, though this sound a bit perverse... and even if they do the cleaning, it'd mostly be light cleaning with coconut water and/or lime with soft scraping with tooth brush followed by rinsing and drying with cloth.And some do an additional process of drying over smoke of incense...

6) funny thing about the don't touch sign... by the late afternoon of the first day when everybody kinda familiar with each other many people seem to ignore the sign and handle the blades like their own... another nice easy going style of eastern people behaviour i guess...


Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 05:36 PM   #20
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green
1)... for many of the collectors in this region they prefer to keep blades in rusty condition rather than overcleaning and abused of blades like what most of westerners seem to prefer... overcleaning is considered a big no no and devalue the item greatly.

From my limited experience and observation, they'd rather keep the blades un-cleaned and some even prefer it that way, though this sound a bit perverse... and even if they do the cleaning, it'd mostly be light cleaning with coconut water and/or lime with soft scraping with tooth brush followed by rinsing and drying with cloth.And some do an additional process of drying over smoke of incense...

You and i have had this discussion a few times before. I do try to understand regional differences in the maintenance of blades, but I do believe that what you are considering a Western practice of "over-cleaning" is actually a rather traditional Javanese preference for regular cleaning and staining of blades. A rusty blade is generally not tolerated in that culture and would probably be considered disrespectful to the spirit of the blade.
That said, i do understand that the Malay preference is generally not to stain with warangan. However, rust on a blade, aside from being ugly from my own perspective, is undoubtably seriously destructive and, IMHO, abusive to the keris itself. I can assure you that this is an attitude that is not reserved merely for the Western collector.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 06:04 PM   #21
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

I would personally prefer an untouched keris when it will be possible to get it in a not rusted condition and with solid dress. I have a very few of this in my collection. The most have received a good cleaning and new staining of the blades and many times also restore work by the dress. But to collect keris with a complete rusted blade and a dress in sad condition is strange IMVHO. But your pictures show many well kept keris so it seems that there in Malaysia the collectors have different views about this topic.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 08:11 PM   #22
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
I would personally prefer an untouched keris when it will be possible to get it in a not rusted condition and with solid dress. I have a very few of this in my collection. The most have received a good cleaning and new staining of the blades and many times also restore work by the dress. But to collect keris with a complete rusted blade and a dress in sad condition is strange IMVHO. But your pictures show many well kept keris so it seems that there in Malaysia the collectors have different views about this topic.

I agree Sajen. I also like to find untouched keris in relatively old dress when the dress is in good condition, though i have been told many times that this penchant for old dress is indeed more of a Western collector's desire. When dress parts such as mendaks, pendoks or even hilts are in poor condition i generally do not hesitate to replace them though. It has been my understanding that keeping keris in old dress simply to maintain the antiqueness of older forms is not the tradition in Jawa, especially if that dress is in bad repair and would be considered disrespectful to the keris itself. This is not a Western concept AFAIK. My worry about rust on blades runs deeper though as it is most certainly damaging to the integrity of the blade itself. Different region obviously deal with their keris in different ways.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2016, 09:30 PM   #23
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
....though i have been told many times that this penchant for old dress is indeed more of a Western collector's desire.


Yes, this is exactly what I have seen and learned byself.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2016, 01:49 AM   #24
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,516
Default

1) To answer Alan's Q about the correct spelling first... I am not sure which is the right spelling Coteng/Choteng cenok/chenok... modern spelling has done away with 'h' but the pronounciation is exactly the same for both version... just like jogjakarta/yogjakarta etc...

Thanks Green, that makes sense, I speak Bahasa Indonesia, which is based on Malay as spoken in Southern Sumatera, and spellings in that vary from Malay spellings, especially the old English way of spelling Malay words. The "ch" confused me.

"jogjakarta' is not a good parallel example though, there are a number of spoken and written examples with that word.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2016, 04:00 AM   #25
satsujinken
Member
 
satsujinken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Surabaya - Indonesia
Posts: 189
Default

hi all

I posted some pics on Jogjakarta's event, which lasted only 3 days, see my thread

thanks
satsujinken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.