Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 27th December 2007, 02:26 AM   #1
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 971
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Patrem for Comment and Identification

Dear Forumites,

I am lucky to get a new patrem from someone I knew well. But this patrem is quite 'unusual': the "kelengan" (all black) blade is bent a little bit, also the (Sumatera?) warangka. The ivory handle is tightly waxed. It is an iras blade, but with "gigir sapi" (?) in the middle of the blade. So not a "brojol", isn't it? The iron is very solid, cold and smooth.. Is it a Sumatranese patrem?

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
    
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 02:31 AM   #2
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Very nice patrem. Like me there are a couple of other formites that really appreciate these little gems

Congrats

Lew
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 02:49 AM   #3
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 971
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES
Very nice patrem. Like me there are a couple of other formites that really appreciate these little gems

Congrats

Lew


Thanks Lew,

I am taking special attention to patrems now, because of this forum. I saw that some forumites here have special attention to patrems. Then I found that patrem models, they are fascinating to me too...

Ganjawulung
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 04:31 AM   #4
Newsteel
Member
 
Newsteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 132
Default

Good buy Pak ganjawulung. Very nice deadly little piece.

This is indeed from southern sumatra, Palembang keris. The sharp bend curve is unusual but not uncommon. Here we can see the fusion between mid Javanese and typical sumatran forging techniques. It is typical for sumatran keris to be quite thick as it is for practical use.

The ivory hilt doesn't seems right (my personal opinion). You can have it change. To me this ivory looks like for badek or sewah..

I hope you can post 'as it is' picture and not edited. I would love to appreaciate more of this cute fellow.
Newsteel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 05:58 AM   #5
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Thumbs up

Newsteel sums it well.
Lovely Palembang, Sumatra piece... cute but deadly. A few friends have similar pieces... ganja iras too... most appropriate is the palembang topeng hilt form. More of a sepokal or sapukal blade form.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 07:20 AM   #6
PenangsangII
Member
 
PenangsangII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Newsteel sums it well.
Lovely Palembang, Sumatra piece... cute but deadly. A few friends have similar pieces... ganja iras too... most appropriate is the palembang topeng hilt form. More of a sepokal or sapukal blade form.


Yes, it looks like sepokal palembang piece.....or is it tilam upih?
PenangsangII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 08:31 AM   #7
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PenangsangII
Yes, it looks like sepokal palembang piece.....or is it tilam upih?
Tilam upih and sepokal blade have similar features... but blades from different regions does have its slight regional difference in style and material, imho. But then again, sometimes it's difficult to tell them apart without its fittings.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 01:02 PM   #8
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Yep, that is a cutie.
Welcome to the club of patrem lovers Ganja.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 01:26 PM   #9
lemmythesmith
Member
 
lemmythesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 93
Default

Hi Ganja, very nice piece!! Does it have a methuk (like jalak budo) rather than a mendak??
lemmythesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2007, 02:52 PM   #10
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Lemmy, when i lightened the pic in photoshop it looked to be a separate piece so i would imagine it is a mendak, which would be much more appropriate in this case anyway. But i am sure Ganja can tell us more accurately.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 02:17 AM   #11
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 971
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsteel
Good buy Pak ganjawulung. Very nice deadly little piece.

This is indeed from southern sumatra, Palembang keris. The sharp bend curve is unusual but not uncommon. Here we can see the fusion between mid Javanese and typical sumatran forging techniques. It is typical for sumatran keris to be quite thick as it is for practical use.

The ivory hilt doesn't seems right (my personal opinion). You can have it change. To me this ivory looks like for badek or sewah..

I hope you can post 'as it is' picture and not edited. I would love to appreaciate more of this cute fellow.


Yes Newsteel,

The ivory handle more looks like badek handle. I think the first owner had mixed style: Sumatranese, but also Bugis (the blade is like sepukal, as Alamshah and Penangsang just said). And it has no methuk as jalak budo. For Lemmy and Newsteel, these are more pictures on this smaller keris...

Thanks David, for encouraging me to "join" the "patrem community"...

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
     
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2007, 12:00 PM   #12
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,178
Default

This very similar piece was collected in Tanjong Pinang, Riau. What struck me when I first saw the keris was the exaggerated daunan on the sampir, but overall very nicely balanced.
Attached Images
   
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2008, 12:50 AM   #13
ganjawulung
Member
 
ganjawulung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 971
Send a message via Yahoo to ganjawulung
Default Palembang?

Dear BlueErf and All,

I hope this newer collection of mine -- a Sumatran patrem -- dressed correctly. Someone from Sumatra had sent me this piece a couple days ago. Please regard too, the comparison with normal keris in Jogjanese dress...

The Sumatran blade was heavily soaked with warangan, but I have cleaned it a bit with lemon. Are the parts of this keris matched with Palembang style?

Ganjawulung
Attached Images
    
ganjawulung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th January 2008, 01:14 AM   #14
Alam Shah
Member
 
Alam Shah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Dear BlueErf and All,

I hope this newer collection of mine -- a Sumatran patrem -- dressed correctly. The Sumatran blade was heavily soaked with warangan, but I have cleaned it a bit with lemon. Are the parts of this keris matched with Palembang style?

Ganjawulung
Hello Pak Jimmy,
The hilt and selut, match Palembang style... but not the sheath, which is Malay. Your first and Bluerf sheath examples are Palembang.
Alam Shah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:40 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.