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Old 22nd September 2007, 02:44 PM   #1
Dajak
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Default MORO KRIS LOOKS LIKE IT COMES FROM BORNEO

Any one see this Type off Kriss

29 inch. long


Ben
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Old 22nd September 2007, 06:36 PM   #2
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Nice older kris but the silver work seems Indonesian a nice melding of the to cultures.

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Old 22nd September 2007, 09:49 PM   #3
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This kris is of Malay work/origin in hilt. Seen these from this region before and may be Moro influenced long ago. Not what I would consider Moro itself however, except perhaps the blade from what I can see (Sulu blade?). Sulu had many contacts and even settlements in the region at one time.

Very beautiful piece. I like the silver work. Nice horn - is it rhino?
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Old 23rd September 2007, 12:14 AM   #4
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Hi All

yes it is Rhino

I do now that the sulu did setle on the North part off Borneo

the silver work looks like the motif that can be found inthe North part off Borneo or melanau the cost part.


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Old 23rd September 2007, 12:24 AM   #5
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Ben

The silver work reminds of this piece in my collection. The hilt does not strike me as being rhino but then I do not have the sword in hand to be 100% sure either way it is a terrific piece.

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Old 23rd September 2007, 03:02 AM   #6
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Ben: I think that this is a Sulu blade, probably late 19th, early 20th cent. Definitely looks like malay silver work though........Dave
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Old 23rd September 2007, 08:58 AM   #7
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Hi Dave thanks does the moro s use also rhino for the handle .

Here are some pics off Borneo Handle s with silver work on it .

The last pic is from an Murut sword from North Borneo this is also Rhino .


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Old 23rd September 2007, 09:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
Hi All

I do now that the sulu did setle on the North part off Borneo


Actually at one time the Northern part of Borneo was part of the Sulu Sultanate. There are even barongs from Northern Borneo, a "Sulu" weapon.

I agree that the blade is Sulu, or at the very least Sulu influenced.

I am not aware of many Sulu or Moro rhino hilt weapons, but that does not mean that they never used it. May have been harder to get through trade.
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Old 23rd September 2007, 09:49 PM   #9
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Hi Battara what type off barong they use in the North part of Borneo

Maybe this type off Barong


Ben
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Old 23rd September 2007, 10:27 PM   #10
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Hi Ben,

I think the traditional NW Borneo Barong is more often the old-fashioned and less flamboyant hilt version like these 3.

Michael

PS I also suspect that your Kris is West Malaysia - and a very good one!
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Last edited by VVV : 23rd September 2007 at 10:41 PM. Reason: added a picture from Ling Roth as well
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Old 25th September 2007, 12:51 AM   #11
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Hello Ben,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dajak
what type off barong they use in the North part of Borneo

Here are a few examples from the old forum:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001304.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001630.html

Your Barong seems to be a younger example: Cato mentions this hilt type originated in the 20/30ies. Is that mother of pearl or ivory inlay on the scabbard?

(BTW, Ben, please check your email...)

Regards,
Kai
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Old 25th September 2007, 04:27 AM   #12
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Hi Kai this barong could be older than you think mother off pearl is inlay



Ben
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Old 25th September 2007, 07:28 AM   #13
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Hello Ben,

Quote:
this barong could be older than you think

That's Cato's dating and his opinions have been questioned before...

Do you have reliable provenance/dating for your piece? Would be great to get additional data on these nice blades!


Quote:
mother off pearl is inlay


That's also supposed to be correlated with younger pieces but allows even less sure dating AFAIK.

To me, the blade would be most important, anyway. And that can always be older than the fittings...

Regards,
Kai
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Old 25th September 2007, 04:37 PM   #14
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Here some pics about the blade
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Old 25th September 2007, 07:49 PM   #15
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Hello Ben,

Quote:
Here some pics about the blade

A nicely laminated blade (that pattern is quite often seen in Barong)! Did you received it etched as it is? The slender form seems to crop out quite often in Sabah but has been found elsewhere, too. (Vice versa with the more deep bellied blades also showing up in Sabah, too, as shown by Ling Roth's example so shape doesn't seem of great help in determining the origin of a Barong.)

The hilt seems to be well worn with good quality banati/bunti wood used for the pommel. Any hints on the date when this piece got collected?

BTW, Ben, did you received my email/PM on the other blades?

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Kai
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Old 28th September 2007, 06:44 PM   #16
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I am inclined to believe that the MOP is a later tendency, no earlier than the turn of the century. It is also possible that the scabbard is later. The actual barong seems to be no older than the turn of the century and of Samal influence. The scabbard however seems to be of Samal in carving and Borneo influence in shape and size. I do like the chasing decoration on the silver punto at top and bottom.
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