Kard?

Gary Varner · 19th August 2007, 05:14 AM

I recently acquired two knives said to be North African in origin. They appear to be of Kard style with sheaths of wood and covered in red leather. The handles of the knives are also wood, one decorated, the other plain with a wire wrap around 1/2 of the grip. The are both approx 11 inches in length sheathed. The one with the decorated grip also has some unusual markings on the blade. Can anyone help me identify these?

Thanks,

Gary

kronckew · 19th August 2007, 05:37 AM

North African Bou Saddi knife, see this thread

Gary Varner · 19th August 2007, 06:22 AM

Thank you kronckew!

Gary

Jim McDougall · 21st August 2007, 05:58 PM

Kronckew,

Thank you for the link to the thread where you presented some excellent observations, illustrations and analysis of the markings on the blade. It is
always encouraging to see some dialogue with this kind of text rather than laconic comments often seen that are entertaining but offer little in discussion. I always look forward to learning more on these weapons from those who are acquiring, observing and handling the actual examples, and offer the observations developed from thier research.

I am wondering if there is any particular significance with the circular sunburst type stamps. It seems these same symbols are seen elsewhere including SE Asia on dhas, and I'm surprised the dha guys haven't said anything

Thanks again Kronckew for sharing your observations,
Best regards,
Jim

Gary Varner · 21st August 2007, 09:23 PM

Like you, Jim, I am very interested in the markings on the blade and what significance they may hold. Are they the makers mark, totemic, etc? The red mark is very interesting too and I frankly don't know how they applied the color to the blade. If anyone has any information or observations on the marks I would be very interested in them. As a folklorist I am very interested in symbology and the more I get into ethnographic weapons the more I see that symbols have been part of the history of bladed weapons throughout history.

Thanks,

Gary

kronckew · 21st August 2007, 10:39 PM

i have a choora whose blade is decorated with a number of circles surrounded by dots, there are six brass inlaid circles, circumscribed by an engraved circle in the surrounding steel then punched dots around them each side. the spine has six engraved circles surrounded by dots, as well as two groups of six dots surrounded by a ring of similar dots. the brass trim spine extension on the grip bolster has a pattern of 4 dots surrounded by a circle surrounded by dots, as well as the remainder being inscribed with a dozen dots surrounded by a circle surrounded by distinct petals.

common motif? floral symbols? besides the inscribed/inlayed ones, there are a number of etched plantlike patterns, blobs, quattrefoils, surrounded by etched dots and petal like structures which are not clear in the photos (and also islamic etched inscriptions in arabic lettering)

Gary Varner · 21st August 2007, 11:44 PM

An amazing blade! It would appear that perhaps these decorative motifs are some of those inherent in the psyche and may no longer have the meaning that was originally associated with them since they appear across such a wide geographic range. Of course trade and intellectual exchange probably has a lot to do with the distributione of symbols too and their absorbtion in different cultures.

19th August 2007, 05:14 AM	#1
Gary Varner Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 18	Kard? I recently acquired two knives said to be North African in origin. They appear to be of Kard style with sheaths of wood and covered in red leather. The handles of the knives are also wood, one decorated, the other plain with a wire wrap around 1/2 of the grip. The are both approx 11 inches in length sheathed. The one with the decorated grip also has some unusual markings on the blade. Can anyone help me identify these? Thanks, Gary Attached Images

19th August 2007, 05:37 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	North African Bou Saddi knife, see this thread

19th August 2007, 06:22 AM	#3
Gary Varner Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 18	Thank you kronckew! Gary

21st August 2007, 05:58 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,747	Kronckew, Thank you for the link to the thread where you presented some excellent observations, illustrations and analysis of the markings on the blade. It is always encouraging to see some dialogue with this kind of text rather than laconic comments often seen that are entertaining but offer little in discussion. I always look forward to learning more on these weapons from those who are acquiring, observing and handling the actual examples, and offer the observations developed from thier research. I am wondering if there is any particular significance with the circular sunburst type stamps. It seems these same symbols are seen elsewhere including SE Asia on dhas, and I'm surprised the dha guys haven't said anything Thanks again Kronckew for sharing your observations, Best regards, Jim

21st August 2007, 09:23 PM	#5
Gary Varner Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 18	Like you, Jim, I am very interested in the markings on the blade and what significance they may hold. Are they the makers mark, totemic, etc? The red mark is very interesting too and I frankly don't know how they applied the color to the blade. If anyone has any information or observations on the marks I would be very interested in them. As a folklorist I am very interested in symbology and the more I get into ethnographic weapons the more I see that symbols have been part of the history of bladed weapons throughout history. Thanks, Gary

21st August 2007, 10:39 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i have a choora whose blade is decorated with a number of circles surrounded by dots, there are six brass inlaid circles, circumscribed by an engraved circle in the surrounding steel then punched dots around them each side. the spine has six engraved circles surrounded by dots, as well as two groups of six dots surrounded by a ring of similar dots. the brass trim spine extension on the grip bolster has a pattern of 4 dots surrounded by a circle surrounded by dots, as well as the remainder being inscribed with a dozen dots surrounded by a circle surrounded by distinct petals. common motif? floral symbols? besides the inscribed/inlayed ones, there are a number of etched plantlike patterns, blobs, quattrefoils, surrounded by etched dots and petal like structures which are not clear in the photos (and also islamic etched inscriptions in arabic lettering)

21st August 2007, 11:44 PM	#7
Gary Varner Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 18	An amazing blade! It would appear that perhaps these decorative motifs are some of those inherent in the psyche and may no longer have the meaning that was originally associated with them since they appear across such a wide geographic range. Of course trade and intellectual exchange probably has a lot to do with the distributione of symbols too and their absorbtion in different cultures.