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Old 14th July 2007, 05:58 PM   #1
TVV
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Default Help with yatagans' inscriptions

A friend of mine from Bulgaria has several yatagans and he would love to learn what the transcriptions on them mean. Can anyone help, I would really appreciate it?
Thank you very much,
Teodor

Pictures of first yatagan attached
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Old 14th July 2007, 06:05 PM   #2
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Second yatagan, and a stamp from the third yatagan.
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Old 14th July 2007, 06:15 PM   #3
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W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!
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Old 14th July 2007, 06:16 PM   #4
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And the inscription on the 4th piece, followed by pictures of the yatagans.
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Old 14th July 2007, 06:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!


I am not sure Jose, I think this pattern is referred to as Turksih Ribbon. Whatever the case, it certainly took a skillfull smith to produce this lovely blade, and hopefully we may learn his name if the inscription is translated.
Regards,
Teodor
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Old 15th July 2007, 08:08 PM   #6
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The second one with walrus ivory looks Balkan by the ear profile.
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Old 15th July 2007, 08:36 PM   #7
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They are all Balkan, collected in Bulgaria, with details such as villages where these were found available for a few of them. Of course, they could have travelled from one place to another in the past, but I Believe they were all made in the Balkans. Based on examples, walrus hilted yatagans are generally from the Western Balkans, such as Bosnia, and in the Eastern Balkans the hilts are mostly from dark horn - predominantly cow or buffalo, although on one of the examples pictured, which has the smallest ears, the hilt is made of rhino horn.
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Old 15th July 2007, 08:49 PM   #8
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Hello Teodor, could you post some pictures of the rhino horn handle? Thank you
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Old 15th July 2007, 10:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavio
Hello Teodor, could you post some pictures of the rhino horn handle? Thank you


This is the only picture I currently have.
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Old 16th July 2007, 01:08 AM   #10
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All those blades are of Turkish Ribbon pattern; are they not ?
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Old 16th July 2007, 03:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
All those blades are of Turkish Ribbon pattern; are they not ?


Yes Rick, they are, or at least this is what they appear to be to my eye based on the pictures. It appears this pattern was quite popular on yatagans, which is not so surprising.
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Teodor
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Old 15th August 2007, 03:59 PM   #12
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With the hope of bumping this thread up in search of translations, here are two Kamas from the Caucasus, also found in Bulgaria, for comments. One of them has an inscription, and the other one a maker's mark with some writing inside. Can anyone read and translate them?
Thanks,
Teodor
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Old 16th August 2007, 04:18 PM   #13
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Default Book with inscriptions

There is a Russian Book with quite a few inscriptions on yataghans translated, but you need to speak Russian. There are also French articles of yataghan translations. I have heard a couple of the Russian book may be printed in English soon.

Always enjoy seeing a coretwist balde...

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Old 16th August 2007, 04:56 PM   #14
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Thanks Rand,

I do read Russian (which is different from speaking it) without problems. Which books is it - Astvatsaturian's "Турецкое Оружие"? I did not get it when I should have and I am afraid it is out of print now.

Regards,
Teodor
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Old 17th August 2007, 06:04 AM   #15
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Default Punch shape for inlay

Would like to point out the use of a retangular punch in a series of over lapping punches used to form the channel for the silver to be inlaid in the first yataghan posted in this thread. You can clearly see the retangular punch marks where the silver is now absent.

Thanks very much for posting these photo's,

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Old 17th August 2007, 03:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
W W!

Are those 4 rows of twist core I see!?!? Please show the rest of the sword!


I count five on the upper and six on the next sword with a back and edge welded on as well.

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Old 11th December 2007, 06:50 PM   #17
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I am afraid my friend has developped an addiction to damascus yatagans now and he is on a quest to acquire them all. Here is his latest acquisition and I believe this time the yatagan originates from Asia Minor as opposed to the Balkans. Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation - I have not lost hope yet.
Teodor
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Old 13th December 2007, 09:20 PM   #18
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Hi,
The inscription is "amel-e elhac mustafa, sahib ahmed aga" [made by mustafa the pilgrim, owner ahmed aga]

the date is partly erased, I could only make out the number "88" at the very end, and it's probably 1288 hejira= 1871-1872
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Old 13th December 2007, 09:28 PM   #19
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This one is "tevekkeltŘa'l-llah" [I put my trust on Allah]
The date is 1265 hejira = 1848-1849

The picture of the stamp is too small for me to make out the name, but it's clearly amel-e .......(Melik maybe). A bigger picture might help.
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Old 14th December 2007, 02:06 AM   #20
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Zifir,
Thank you very much Sir, especially as this is not the first time you have helped me with translations. I will pass this info to my friend, who I am sure will also be very grateful. For me personally the fun of collecting historical weapons lies in learning as much about them and their history as possible, and putting a name to a sword or dagger greatly increases its sentimental value. Once again, thank you.
Teodor
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Old 24th December 2007, 07:20 PM   #21
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Here is another nice yatagan of graceful proportions. The blade is not damascus, but there are inscriptions in silver. As always, I would be very grateful to whoever helps translating them.
Regards,
Teodor
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Old 30th March 2008, 07:04 PM   #22
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And yet another yatagan, very similar to the previous one I posted in this thread in terms of style, blade decoration and hilt fittings. The band on the hilt and the bolster are almost identical. Can someone please help with translation? I am particularly interested in the names of the makers, as I wonder if these two yatagans could have been made by the same bladesmith.
Thank you very much,
Teodor
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Old 31st March 2008, 01:34 PM   #23
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sorry, because if arabic alphabet,
seems not be arabic language
Turkish ? Farsi ?

Ó +

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Old 31st March 2008, 01:40 PM   #24
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translation
1266 Hegire = 1849 Gregorian

Ó +

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Old 31st March 2008, 01:45 PM   #25
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Translation:
"done by Ibrahim Sa'heb
I go with God blessing"

Ó +

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Old 31st March 2008, 02:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Here are some pictures along with the usual request for translation Teodor

Hi Teodor
sorry, but even don't seems to be arabic


Ó +

Dom

attached; one pic of a series from 3
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Old 31st March 2008, 02:44 PM   #27
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Hi Teodor

translation of the upper part of the cartouche;
" 137 (then) I go with God blessing"
no way to found the sense of the lower part, sorry

Ó +

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Old 31st March 2008, 04:24 PM   #28
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Dom,

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful! I think the inscriptions are in Turkish, not Arabic. To me the date on the blade with the gold inscriptions looks like 127? instead of 137?. 137? would place it in the middle of last century, which is a bit too late, while 127? makes perfect sense.
However, by translating "I go with God's blessing" on both of these blades, you have increased the suspicion that these may have been made in the same workshop. If indeed the date on the longer yatagan is 137(1?) that would place it within 5 years of the other one. No conclusive proof yet, but getting closer.

Teodor
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Old 31st March 2008, 07:49 PM   #29
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It took me some time to recognize this formula. Finally thanks to a better script I was able to read it in another post.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5889

The inscription is:
Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir

These are the names of Eshab-i Keyf (Seven Sleepers) and their dog.
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Old 31st March 2008, 07:52 PM   #30
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My reading is 1127 / 1715, instead of 127?. In some official and legal documents, I came across the cases when they just wrote the last three digits. But I am not sure about this one.

The last row is:

Sahib Mustafa Aga (owner Mustafa Agha)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Dom,

Thank you very much, this is extremely helpful! I think the inscriptions are in Turkish, not Arabic. To me the date on the blade with the gold inscriptions looks like 127? instead of 137?. 137? would place it in the middle of last century, which is a bit too late, while 127? makes perfect sense.
However, by translating "I go with God's blessing" on both of these blades, you have increased the suspicion that these may have been made in the same workshop. If indeed the date on the longer yatagan is 137(1?) that would place it within 5 years of the other one. No conclusive proof yet, but getting closer.

Teodor

Last edited by Zifir : 31st March 2008 at 08:03 PM.
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