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Old 17th May 2007, 03:32 PM   #1
ganjawulung
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Default Pics: Jawa Demam Hilts

Dear All,

I always keep these "three brothers" in one place. I believe, they are all brothers. I found these three brothers in Cirebon, north-west side of Central Java. In the old days, people in this region (including Tegal), they wore their identities: some times other people's identity. Maybe, these Jawa Demam too..

I hope you don't feel disturb with pictures of my collections...

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Old 17th May 2007, 05:40 PM   #2
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Thanks Ganja, nice hilts. I also have two keris with raksasa hilts that i call brothers and keep together, so i understand your thinking.
I might be off base, but that first example (on the left in the photo of all 3) of yours looks a bit Sumatran.
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Old 18th May 2007, 12:19 PM   #3
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Nice Hits Ganja!
A question: how is possible to understand in right way if the Jawa Demam's handles are from Cirebon area istead of Sumatra.
There are some angles (maybe in the bacK?) or is fonly for decoration or for the cut in the base?
Thanks


Here i put a photo of many other Yogya brothers ( a chics'brood !)
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Old 18th May 2007, 03:53 PM   #4
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Default Cirebon

Dear Marco,

Cirebon was an important Sultanate in Indonesia, in the 15th and 16th century. And it was an important port too in Java and South-east Asia beside Malacca. You still can find many of foreign influence in Cirebon until today. In the old days, even (Chinese great seaman) Cheng Ho had visited this port in the nort-west side of Central Java.

Cirebon's culture, was mixture of Indian, Arabic and Chinese influence. So, no wonder if other island culture and art influenced Cirebon too. One of their famous Sultan was Sunan Gunung Jati. He was mix-blood of Persian, Javanese (grand father is the King of Pajajaran Kingdom, Prabu Siliwangi), and he was married to a chinese princess Ong Tin Nio -- daughter of Ming dynasti from Champa or China.

Cirebon was the aliance of other Islamic Kingdom in Nusantara, Demak (Central Java) and Banten (West Java). So, no wonder too if there was Sumatranese influence.

I have many kinds of Cirebonese hilts, beside the Jawa Deman style, and even Rajamala (shorter than kingfisher's nose), and wayang or bajang (demon-giant) hilts. Quite unique.
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Old 18th May 2007, 04:07 PM   #5
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Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?).
Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?
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Old 20th May 2007, 02:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?


Shahrial,

Sorry for being late to answer you. Of course, I will share the pictures with you, with pleasure. I am still taking fotos of them. Pls wait for a couple moments...
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Old 22nd May 2007, 08:39 PM   #7
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Default Shahrial's Request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
Ganja,

Hmmm... your first 3 paragraphs seems familiar (Keris - 3rd Ed?).
Ganja, if you don't mind, share the pictures with us?


Dear Shahrial,

As I promised yesterday, I will share the pictures with you. These are some Cirebonese hilt. Not "demam" (fever) anymore, look at the hand position: no more cross their hearts, but lay their hand at their bent knees.

Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..
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Old 22nd May 2007, 11:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
... Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..
Thank you, ganja for sharing. I do have an example of a "buta bajang" hilt mounted on a keris.

I've studied hilts for sometime now, however my knowledge is still limited.
I found books from Martin Kerner, Vanna, Tammens, Suhartono and Bambang to be the most helpful, regarding hilts. Books from Van Duuren, Frey, Haryono and a few others do contain many hilts examples / illustrations also providing a good source of knowledge.

Physically handling the hilts provides another dimension of learning, having the chance to see the detailing works from various angles, material used, weight distribution, grasping techniques, not possible from pictures. I'm lucky to have friends and dealers whom are willing to share their items with me.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 01:33 AM   #9
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Wow,

What an inspiring web! I dream someday I'll have my own web like yours. So we could share with other people on our keris. I have already some collection, but not as many as yours yet.

I had offered by Bentara Budaya Jakarta (a good place for cultural exhibition in Indonesia) to make a kind of (Keris Hilts) Exhibition this year. Do you have any idea? Or may be it will be possible for you to join the exhibition here?

I met once with Mr Suhardjono from Surabaya a couple years ago. We shared together on kerises, and for him, especially on keris hilts. (At that time, he was working for a nikel corporation in Soroako, Sulawesi. He's engineer and keris lover). And he gave me his book on handle.

I am waiting for your sharing on the exhibition's idea, Shahrial...
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Old 23rd May 2007, 02:00 AM   #10
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Default Old Hilt

Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 03:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Some people call such hilt as "buta bajang" (demon-giant), or "wayang" hilt. The long nose one, is Rajamala hilt. A wayang figure..


Yes, the long-nosed one is a wayang hilt, but what of the other figurative hilts you show? Are these also "buta bajang"? Up until this point i would have referred to them as "raksasa", which is also a demon-giant AFAIK. Would that term not be correct for these hilts?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 03:31 AM   #12
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Dear David,

Buta and Raksasa are the same meaning, Dave.. Buta (Javanese) and Raksasa (Indonesian). Buta Bajang in Javanese is more specific. Bajang means "kerdil" in Indonesian or something like "dwarf" (but giant) creature. So "buta bajang" litterally, means "dwarf giant"... so contradictory. There are so many contradictory terms in Javanese world. Javanese itself is contradictory too. Imagine. They (we) have so many powerful kerises and spears, though had been colonialized by certain nations... (That's our daily joke in Java). Thanks Dave, for the attention...
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Old 23rd May 2007, 04:14 AM   #13
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Thank you Ganja, there is so much to learn.
And please do not worry too much when you have some words that you find hard to translate. It will always be that way with languages. The general English rule on this forum is not so strict as to not understand this. Some words just won't translate. What is important is that we keep the conversation in one language while we try to work out the details of these translations just so that we all understand each other. And as i stated in another thread, certain keris terms such as "gonjo" really have no better English equivalent.
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Old 23rd May 2007, 10:19 AM   #14
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Ganja
Your hits collection is beautifull! A real party for my eyes
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Old 23rd May 2007, 04:03 PM   #15
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Default Fever and No More Fever

Look,

Actually the difference of these eight brothers lays upon their hands. The first "fever" four, is shivering with fever. And hand-crosses their hearts. And the other four, no more shivering. No more hand-crosses. And just put their hands in their bent knees... Still brothers?
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Old 23rd May 2007, 07:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?


Nice hilts!

The elephant head is Ganesha.
Depending on what intellectual level of Shivaism you follow he is either:
- the son of Shiva and Parvati
- the son of only Parvati (no father)
- the son of Shiva's cakti (female side of the same being) Parvati.

I have gathered some information on this page on him:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/module...=view_album.php

On your other hilts I believe the Jawa Demam/Garuda is the youngest version?

The wayang or raksasa hilts are found on the archaic hilts and their position are more the traditional ancestor position (kneeling with hands on their knees). The Indian name of this position is Pralambapada (as this is Hindu influenced hilts).
Here is some more info on a related Cirebon hilt:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/module...=view_album.php

Michael
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Old 23rd May 2007, 09:08 PM   #17
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Default The Chatting Hilts

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Nice hilts!

The elephant head is Ganesha.
Depending on what intellectual level of Shivaism you follow he is either:
- the son of Shiva and Parvati
- the son of only Parvati (no father)
- the son of Shiva's cakti (female side of the same being) Parvati.

On your other hilts I believe the Jawa Demam/Garuda is the youngest version?

The wayang or raksasa hilts are found on the archaic hilts and their position are more the traditional ancestor position (kneeling with hands on their knees). The Indian name of this position is Pralambapada (as this is Hindu influenced hilts).

Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung
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Old 24th May 2007, 07:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung
The far left is a makara hilt. Also found on Kujangs.
VVV, BluErf, Marco and some others have lots of knowledge about hilts, more than I.
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Old 24th May 2007, 08:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Yes, Michael,

Older Cirebonese hilts I've found, either with Garuda form, or Ganesha (elephant) derivation. Some younger, are abstract form of Ganesha. But now, look! What are these hilts are talking about? (The far right is a Cirebonese sword handle with elephant motive).

Ganjawulung


Ganja,

I can't see if the far right is a Makara or Ganesha based on the picture?

On the message of the hilts several books has been written about this.
My favourites are:

Kerner, Martin, 2000, Keris-Griffe; Aus Museen und Privatsammlungen, Kirchdorf

and

Sejr Jensen, Karsten,1998, Den Indonesiske Kris – et symbolladet våben, Næstved

The first in German and the second in Danish.
But Karsten is soon releasing a new book/CD and this time in English.

The easy explanation is that the hilts represents the attributes of the figures.
Like Ganesha has wisdom, is giver of success in all undertaings and is also known as the Lord of obstacles.
And the hero Bima (fearful, terrible) can travel with the speed of the wind and is stronger than 1000 elephants.

Michael
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Old 24th May 2007, 09:46 AM   #20
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A clearer picture.

Last edited by Alam Shah : 24th May 2007 at 01:26 PM. Reason: picture transferred below for comparison
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Old 24th May 2007, 11:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Shahrial,

I have this strange old hilt. Is it worth for something to tell? Its figure was elephant headed 'god'. Do you have some reference on it?


Hallo, Ganja
I found this pictures
The first is from the book "Indonesian Ornamental Design" edit by Pepin Press
(look the second hit on the bottom)
The other (but this is a gana hit ) from last M. Kerner's book "keris griffe aus museen..."
Another good book about keris hit is "keris invincible" by V. Ghiringhelli; do you have this book?
another is Tammens' De Kris vol. 3 (good, but with black and white picture)
another is "krisgrepen" by Engel (common book with black and white pictures)
There are also a good article about keris is "The hilt of the kris" by Cedric Dauphin in the book "Parcours des mondes n.1 (but with some pictures take from another ghiringhelli's book/i think without permission).
...To morrow i scanner a photo of a Makara Hit
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Old 24th May 2007, 01:14 PM   #22
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Default Makara hilt.

The makara in Martin Kerner's book "Keris-Griffe aus dem malayischen Archipel", (pg:23, Fig 12). The carvings in Kerner's book is much better than ganja's example.

The 'sort-of' translated text:
The black buffalo-horn handle, out of Java was carved as a Makara, a mythical Chimare (vampire?) with elephant head and fish body. The Traufsteine of the temple concern of Borobudur are formed in this type.

Not very meaningful translation, (but hey... I'm not German). (Pics below for comparison).
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Last edited by Alam Shah : 24th May 2007 at 01:26 PM. Reason: picture transferred from above for comparison
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Old 24th May 2007, 02:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alam Shah
...The black buffalo-horn handle, out of Java was carved as a Makara, a mythical Chimare (vampire?) with elephant head and fish body...


At least the same,
My "sword" handle (or maybe big keris?) with "makara" motives was made of "sungu kebo" or the black buffalo-horn handle. So old, that the black horn now seems like wood...
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Old 24th May 2007, 02:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
At least the same,
My "sword" handle (or maybe big keris?) with "makara" motives was made of "sungu kebo" or the black buffalo-horn handle. So old, that the black horn now seems like wood...
I have a kujang with this hilt, but a bit broken, see here.
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Old 25th May 2007, 07:53 AM   #25
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Nice old piece, Alam
Here a photo of another makara (a rather new hit)
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Old 25th May 2007, 08:13 AM   #26
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Hi all,

Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael
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Old 25th May 2007, 08:45 AM   #27
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Default Makara's Derivation?

Are these also derivations of Makara's motive? These six hilts are typical Cirebonese, and also Tegal hilts (Northern Coast of Central Java). They are abstraction of elephant figure (stylized elephant figure?).

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Old 25th May 2007, 09:03 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Hi all,

Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael

Hallo Michael
Please could you tell some more news about the new Karsten's book?
(When will be edit, subject, ...)
Thanks
Marco
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Old 25th May 2007, 09:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
...Nice collection of makara hilts.
Thanks Shahrial for the lighter picture. I couldn't see any scales before.
On the illustration from Indonesian Ornamental Design actually that is a rip off too from the older book with the same name by van der Hoop, printed 1949 in "Bandoeng" by the "Koninklijk Bataviaasch Genootschap van Kunsten en Wetenschappen".
Another style of Makara hilt will be published in Karsten's coming new book.
We were at an auction together and he picked up a much chubbier version than the ones in this thread.

Michael
No problem, Michael. Imho, ganjawulung's hilt is probably an improved, simplified version of the makara, hence the missing scales.

I'll be looking forward to Karsten's new book, as well.
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Old 25th May 2007, 10:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganjawulung
Are these also derivations of Makara's motive? These six hilts are typical Cirebonese, and also Tegal hilts (Northern Coast of Central Java). They are abstraction of elephant figure (stylized elephant figure?).

Ganjawulung
No, these hilt are not derived from the makara. These are ganesha-inspired hilts. It seems that you've quite a lot of nice hilts. Are you a hilt collector,as well?
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