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Old 3rd April 2007, 11:01 PM   #1
fernando
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Default Swords a la Portuguese

It is rather dificult to define the origin of fire and white arms as being Portuguese, rather than Spanish or, in the least, Iberian, for the various reasons. One of them is that there isn't much printed material about them.
These are ( badly scanned ) pictures of some swords a la Portuguese, with the so called crab or colhonas ( testicles ) guards, a model used in the XV century discoveries period.
The first picture is of a peculiar Timorese specimen, with all parts remaining original, including the grip, which is very rare to find. The scabbard beltings are in sinew and vegetable fibres, and its shape is aledgely that of a crocodile, a Timorese symbol. It is adorned with a handwooven band, traditional of warriors and chiefs. The unsheathed blade is the first image in the second picture. Eventually its straight form was later fire bent, to fit in the slightly curved crocodile scabbard. The other two swords are crab specimens from the XVI-XVII century.
The Timorese set would be a XVI century blade and a XVIII century sheath.
These and many more specimens, halberds, swords, muskets, pistols and armour, mostly Portuguese but also other European that were vital to Portuguese armament, come in a book called AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES, by Eduardo Nobre, printed in 2004, ISBN 972-589-133-3.
... This in case there are someone interested in this area ... i think Philip was ?!.
The texts are in Portuguese, the pictures are first class. Non scholar translations can be arranged .
fernando
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Old 4th April 2007, 02:21 PM   #2
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Fantastic

There are some similar Spanish guards from around the same period, the mutual influence is almost unavoidable.

Where can one get a hold of this book? I can read Portugese well enough...
Thanks for the heads-up, Fernando
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Old 4th April 2007, 02:59 PM   #3
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Hi Mark
Plenty other weapons with mutual influence are shown in this book.
Try here:
http://www.quimera-editores.com/cat...masebaroes.html
If it doesn't work, let me know.
Salutacions
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Old 5th April 2007, 11:39 AM   #4
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Thanks, Fernando
I'll give it a try.
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Old 6th April 2007, 06:04 AM   #5
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Thanks, Fernando, for both the images and the link to a possible source for this book.

The "crab" style sword hilts (I prefer the Portuguese "colhoes" or testicles name as far more descriptive of these overseas imitations) are indeed typical of the Iberian peninsula during the period encompassing the beginning of the "Age of Discoveries". I haven't been able to verify if the style originated in Portugal or Spain; the most often published examples are those associated with Spanish notables, notably King Fernando I and "El Gran Capitan" Gonzalo Fernandez de Cordoba, both of whom flourished at the turn of the 16th cent. See Ada Brun Hoffmeyer's article "From Medieval Sword to Renaissance Rapier" in ART, ARMS, AND ARMOUR (ed. Robert Held, Chiasso [Switz.]: Acquafresca Editrice, 1979) for photos of hilts of both weapons. Fernando's sword has rounded terminals to the principal quillons that are related to the testicles, whereas Gonzalo's hilt has flattened ends. It's interesting to note that the colonial imitations have much smaller pommels than their European predecessors, and I'm wondering if the blades on them might be thinner so that less counterbalance in the hilt is necessary.

You are right, there is so little info at present that will allow us to definitively identify Portuguese swords as separate in design from their Spanish or Italian equivalents.

In the case of firearms, it is rather easier to distinguish some distinctly Portuguese types because of mechanical and aesthetic differences that were prominent during the 16th and 17th centuries. However, as the 18th cent. progressed on into the 19th, Lusitanian gun makers began making more pieces in the prevailing Spanish and French styles and without signatures, it can be hard to tell some of the products apart. Daenhardt is a good source of info in this field.
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Old 6th April 2007, 12:14 PM   #6
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Well, the Portugese ones have these flat, circular quillion ends (hence the "colhoes" ), the Spanish ones tend to widen progressively. Cut-out designs there and in the pommels are not uncommon in both types. Also, the proportions guard - pas d'ane - grip - pommel are different between the Spanish and the Portugese models, as tends to be the typology of the blades.

There's also the exemplars so kindly made available in Antonio's page

Of course, there's a lot of variations and exemplars that stand in the blurry middle ground (that's the thing with the "mutual influences"...), but there's some ground for distinguishing them. But there's not THAT many surviving exemplars, that's why I jumped to the chance of getting this book. Now, if I could manage to get Daenhardt's in a better shape than the lousy photocopies I have now...

Here, pics of the ones Philip have mentioned plus a couple more. Up to down and left to right:
Fernando the Catholic King's (Granada), the so-called Fernando the Catholic King's in the Real Armería (Royal Armoury) in Madrid, the so-called Gran Capitan's also in the Real Armería in Madrid, and finally the so-called El Cid's Tizona, formerly in the Army Museum in Madrid.
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Old 6th April 2007, 03:58 PM   #7
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Thanks, Marc, for the additional images and info.
I was recently in Israel, examining some interesting things in private collections and noted some outstanding examples of Moroccan sabers (nimcha) and Zanzibar sabers (sayf) with hilt elements bearing remarkable similarity to the multiple, forward-curving quillons on the Spanish swords you illustrated.

Both Morocco and Zanzibar hilts have primary and secondary stems on the guards which bend forward. In the case of these sabers, the guards are of course asymmetrical because a knucklebow is on one side. Another modification is that the twin stems on the dorsal side both curve alike, without the "inner" one circling back to the blade as with the Iberian form (French writers on the subject maintain that they were designed this way as "blade catchers"). You might want to refer to Alain Jacob's LES ARMES-BLANCHES DU MONDE ISLAMIQUE, Paris, J. Grancher 1985) for a number of illustrated examples.

The Zanzibar hilts are even more interesting: there is a pas d'ane joining the quillons on one side of the hilt.

Considering Morocco's proximity to the Iberian Peninsula (and its site of the famous battle of Al Qasr el-Kebir between Moors and Portuguese in 1584), and the early Portuguese presence on the coast of Africa and into the Indian Ocean, there seems no doubt as to the origin of the guard designs on both the nimchas and Zanzibar sayfs.
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Old 6th April 2007, 07:13 PM   #8
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Default a couple coincidences

At this moment i am in Lisbon, visiting my daughter.
I have been, as usual, at Daehnhardt's shop. Besides having bought a ( aledgely ) Portuguese XVIII century plug bayonet, which might in fact be from Azores, as its grip is composed with what looks to be whale bone, i have acquired a catalogue of an auction that took place in 1989, because it contains various pictures of ( really ) Portuguese weapons. The amazing thing is that it had for sale the sword that appears in the first picture of above mentioned Antonio's page, which means that Rainer Daeehnhardt must have bought this sword at such auction ... can you beleive it ?
In the catalogue text they confirm that only five of these swords are known to exist. There seems to be one more in Spain, which is item nr. 59 of Institute Valencia y Don Juan, in Madrid. A fourth one was found recently ( from the catalogue's date ) between the walls of a Portuguese Palace, and now kept in Daehnhardt's collection. This would mean that he now keeps the two existing specimens in Portugal. Eventually and still according to the text, this sword, found in a tomb in a Portuguese convent, has the blade broken and the tip missing but, due to its historical value, nobody had yet dared to restore it. It happens that i have arranged with the shop keeper to meet Rainer himself tomorrow, in his other Cascais shop, to ask him for some details on the plug bayonet. I will then ask him to coment on his probable acquisition of the sword at the auction, and if has decided to restore it.
Marc, what do you mean by lousy photocopies ? Are you referring to the pictures contained in his book Homens Espadas e Tomates ? Can i help you with some scanning ? Also this book is vailable and not expensive.
I can also scan the picture of the sword in the auction catalogue, which has a reasonable quality. Also there was another copy of the catalogue left in the shop; it costs 20 euros. If ever i can help in any way, just tell, as also Philip.
BTW, the correct term applied by the discoveries soldiers was espada "colhona", an humoristic made up derivation of the vernacular term "colhão" ... actually with a more vernacular charge in Portugal than in Spain, i would say

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Old 7th April 2007, 03:38 PM   #9
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The Bereber kingdoms had mixed relationships with the Islamic dominions in the Iberian peninsula throughout their history... it was during the time of last Nasrid Caliphs (mid-late 15th c.) that these hilts developed.

To be fully sincere, I find that the relationship between this kind of guards and the so-called nimcha and Zanzibar swords deserves a deeper study, although I don't expect to find any direct link. But that's because I'm afraid I lack too much data... To start with, I would like to know when these guards first start to appear in the Maghrib and in Arabia, and if it is possible to clarify where they appeared first. My preliminary bets would go to them going from Arabia to the Maghrib, and not the other way around, just for a question of raw power of influence. Besides, I've seen at least one exemplar of "Zanzibar", with stems (in Spanish they are called pitones) in the hilt and a short(ish), wide, cutting blade, with traces of etched designs and inscriptions in Arabic, but with a koftgariand enamel decoration typical of North African late exemplars. What it means, is hard to say without knowing where it came from and an approximate date for it, but at least it bears witness of a cross-influence. Too many questions and far too little data for anything but preliminary hypothesis, for now, at least in my case... gotta get a hold of that article relating these swords with Genoa, I've heard this argument a lot of times and would really love to see the data that led to that conclusion, it would probably dispel some of my doubts. Funny, this is one of the many questions that I have permanently in the back of my mind, probably because I like this type of swords so much...

How are the secondary arms of the guard called in English? I can't recall right now... in Spanish they are called patillas, "little legs" (and also "sideburns", funnily enough).

Fernando, thank you very much for your offer. The photocopies I have are from what I think is a small catalogue of the Daehnhardt's collection, or at least a part of it. I got them in the fly, a long time ago, without being really able to ask for details (one of these "take it or leave it" things, but I just couldn't let pass the chance of having at least a small glimpse into one of the most important arms collections in the Iberian Peninsula). I don't know if such a catalogue really exists and is still available somewhere...
Congratulations on your purchase by the way
And about being the sword in the auction... well, arms collecting and studying is a small world, after all. Spend some time in it, and you start to find the same names again and again and again...

There's some more swords of this design in Spain and elsewhere in Europe, at least the Spanish variation, some in Museums, some in private hands. One of them is indeed the beautiful exemplar in the Instituto Valencia de Don Juan in Madrid:
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Old 7th April 2007, 07:32 PM   #10
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In fact, Rainer Daehnhardt has bought that rare navigator's sword at the auction, and even another one, also taken from a tomb, and in a very bad excavated condition. So now he has three specimens, so many as those existing in Spain. As Mark says, arms collecting is a confined circuit. Anyway this man is quite a character, his collection inventory is measured by the thousand multiple. Given the fact that Philip has his famous book Homens Espadas e Tomates but the texts are in Portuguese, and also that i have just posed Mr. Raehnhardt some ( layman ) questions on this subject, let me here try and offer a couple coments to your remarks.
Fernando's sword has rounded terminals to the principal quillons that are related to the testicles, whereas Gonzalo's hilt has flattened ends.
The version of Gran Capitan de Cordoba was in fact the most used style by Portuguese, Spaniards and Italians. Eventualy, and with my respects to Antonio Cejunior, the fifth picture in the above shown Antonio's page, a 1500's navigator sword, is quoted in Daehnhardt's book as being of Venetian origin.The version with the round quillons (guardas or quartões ) appears to be a Portuguese exclusive, mostly used and developed in the Portuguese strongholds in Africa. Known as colhona by rank and file, it was listed in inventories as Espada Preta de Bordo ( Board black sword ). They were painted black, to avoid rust and light reflexion, and they were considered ( also) for naval use. Outstandingly in some specimens, the round quillons are found quite sharpened, which sugests that these parts were also used as weapons for close combat.
It's interesting to note that the colonial imitations have much smaller pommels than their European predecessors.
European specimens were in fact of highly noticeable superior quality, but in colonial pieces some differences could be noticed between those made by Portuguese smiths detached to Africa, like to the Fort of São Jorge da Mina, and those made by Indigenous imitators, like those from Congo, who kept making them till a much later period. The tangs could just be bent at the pommel end, and not riveted, as also other finishing details would be neglected, like the pommel size. However the blades could be of similar quality, as all imported from Spain and Germany, which makes it harder to distinguish one from the other.
French writers on the subject maintain that they were designed this way as "blade catchers"
Actually Daehnhardt also quotes this possibility.

Hi Mark,
Ablout your observation:
To be fully sincere, I find that the relationship between this kind of guards and the so-called nimcha and Zanzibar swords deserves a deeper study
Daehnhardt sugests that Portuguese influence extends from the Morocan Nimcha to the Cingalese Kastane.
BTW, I must warn you that, in the book i have sugested and provided the link, the only crab swords shown are those in the pictures i have posted above. The many others are of different weaponry.
On the other hand, Homens Espadas e Tomates is well within this area of Discoveries Swords, having already sold several thousand copies ( some six editions from three different editors ) and costs something like 20 euros.
If i manage to deal with my wild scanner, i will send you copy of some pages, for you to have an idea of how interesting it is for you ... or not.
Kind regards
fernando

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Old 8th April 2007, 02:07 PM   #11
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The sword belonging to El Gran Capitan is indeed a "the luxe" piece and kept in an fantastic good condition. On the contrary, the sword atributed ( but not assured ) to Pedro Alcaro Cabral, Brazil discoverer, is well excavated, broken in two halves, and with a missing tip. This is the best achieveable picture, from the Silvas auction catalogue, together with an overall silhouete,from the Daehnhardt book.
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Old 8th April 2007, 02:19 PM   #12
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I’m trying to get a hold of Nobre’s book, the only problem is that the editorial has his online shop built on a non-secure server. There’s no way I’m going to send my credit card details over such a connection. I contacted them, let’s see if we can work something out.

Speaking of which… I would also be interested, indeed, in getting “Homens Espadas e Tomates”, could we arrange something? If you have anything in mind, please, contact me via PM and we’ll see what can be done. In any event, thank you very much for your offer.

Regarding your comments…



Yes, I agree that the swords with the rounded quillion finials are exclusively Portugese, or from Portugese-controlled lands. But:



Quote:
the fifth picture in the above shown Antonio's page, a 1500's navigator sword, is quoted in Daehnhardt's book as being of Venetian origin
If you’re referring to this one:



I think it’s also Portugese, for what I can gather from the picture. It only lacks the rounded quillion finials, but there’s plenty of other elements, specially the proportions of the different elements, that relate it with the “colhona”. If Mr. Daehnhardt has any additional information that makes him believe otherwise, I would love to know it…



On the other hand, the last sword:



it’s indeed of a less specific type, possibly Iberian, from the Spanish kingdoms in Italy or from other Italian sources. Can’t be more specific without more data.



Quote:
Daehnhardt sugests that Portuguese influence extends from the Morocan Nimcha to the Cingalese Kastane.
Well, and I suggest that, here, the full extent of the word “influence” would then become the core of a much deep, long and intense debate…

By the way, thank you for the warning about the number of “colhonas” in Nobre’s book, but, to be sincere, I’m interested in everything it has to say about Portugese weapons in general. There’s so little written about them, and, If you ask me, it’s a bit fallacious to pretend to study “Spanish” weapons without at least being somewhat familiar with those of our closest neighbours



Thanks again, Fernando. A nice discussion.
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Old 8th April 2007, 02:54 PM   #13
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Right Marc, you have a PM
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Old 2nd August 2017, 02:32 PM   #14
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It may look a bit weird, to "ressurect" a 10 year old post, but... Information on this is scarce.
What do you think of this (it was found in Angola, in the 60's, and i recently aquired it)?
Sorry about the quality of the photos, but i don´t have my "real" camera with me...
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Old 2nd August 2017, 10:29 PM   #15
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Moving this to the European section. Probably get better responses there.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 03:02 AM   #16
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I'm not a consoisseur on this kind of weapons, but I will express some ideas, meanwhile others, better informed, gives his or her opinions. The work seems very rough, as if it was made in a colony overseas. Like some of the so-called "colonial rapiers", made in America instead Europe. The fullers on the ricasso are unusual, as the pommel. Flatted pommels with perforations and a small central bar can be found on Portuguese swords of this type, and this pommel in certain way remainds them, but only in a certain way. The endings of the guards does not present the typical circular flat form of the Portuguese boarding swords from the 15th Century. They are more stylized, but this also was not unusual on this swords, as seen in the example above in the post from Marc. The perforations on the ring guards seem to correspond to stems (pitons), a sort of defenses which now are lacking, probably because of a bad hot-welding work. I don´t have specifics on the forging capabilities of the natives of Angola in the 17th Century (if the date on the blade is correct), but this sword can be a copy of the Portuguese boarding sword made by a local blacksmith, Portuguese or native, but a bungler.

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Old 3rd August 2017, 06:28 AM   #17
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Is the red colouration in the photographs an artifact or is there really red active rust on this blade? This is something I would not expect to see on a blade of this age.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 10:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzalo G
I'm not a consoisseur on this kind of weapons, but I will express some ideas, meanwhile others, better informed, gives his or her opinions. The work seems very rough, as if it was made in a colony overseas. Like some of the so-called "colonial rapiers", made in America instead Europe. The fullers on the ricasso are unusual, as the pommel. Flatted pommels with perforations and a small central bar can be found on Portuguese swords of this type, and this pommel in certain way remainds them, but only in a certain way. The endings of the guards does not present the typical circular flat form of the Portuguese boarding swords from the 15th Century. They are more stylized, but this also was not unusual on this swords, as seen in the example above in the post from Marc. The perforations on the ring guards seem to correspond to stems (pitons), a sort of defenses which now are lacking, probably because of a bad hot-welding work. I don´t have specifics on the forging capabilities of the natives of Angola in the 17th Century (if the date on the blade is correct), but this sword can be a copy of the Portuguese boarding sword made by a local blacksmith, Portuguese or native, but a bungler.



Well, thank you!
And, let's say that everything you wrote exactly matches what i think about this... I didn't write anything because i am not a specialist (not even a "real" collector, sadly), and i didn't want to probably make a fool of myself. But i did some research (not easy to find information on this) and these are my thoughts exactly, i have nothing to add to your comment!
The fullers on the ricasso actually puzzle me, they are not even metallic , but made of some brittle material i couldn't identify.
The blade looks like it was repaired/altered at some point. Almost like it was "reforged", there are some "seams", starting from the middle of the blade to the poin...

RobertGuy, well, the oxidation is not as active as it looks to be, the photos were taken with flash, and that really brightens the orange, but yes, this is quite corroded. Truth is it was found in the open, and worse, on a beach, exposed to salt water for who knows how long...
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Old 3rd August 2017, 12:13 PM   #19
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Wouldn't this be an example made by African locals inspired in navigator swords, which prevailed through centuries to be used for ceremonies or prestige, the so called MBELE A LULENDO (sword of power) ?. In this specific specimen, the date 1697 could have also been borrowed from early original examples. This one could be as late as from the 19th. century. The variation in model details may as well be 'authors imagination'. Although these swords may be acquired in (Nothern) Angola, it is obvious to expect that their design found its way there descending from neighbour Southwest Congo, where its influence was provided by navigators is registered.
But of course, anyone with knowledge may certainly correct me ... partly or totally .


.

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Old 3rd August 2017, 01:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Wouldn't this be an example made by African locals inspired in navigator swords, which prevailed through centuries to be used for ceremonies or prestige, the so called MBELE A LULENDO (sword of power) ?. In this specific specimen, the date 1697 could have also been borrowed from early original examples. This one could be as late as from the 19th. century. The variation in model details may as well be 'authors imagination'. Although these swords may be acquired in (Nothern) Angola, it is obvious to expect that their design found its way there descending from neighbour Southwest Congo, where its influence provided by navigators is registered.



That fits perfectly well, Fernando!! The Bakongo- Bantu used these swords as you said. This ethnic group in fact extends from north Luanda in Angola to the Congo.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 03:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
The Bereber kingdoms had mixed relationships with the Islamic dominions in the Iberian peninsula throughout their history... it was during the time of last Nasrid Caliphs (mid-late 15th c.) that these hilts developed.

To be fully sincere, I find that the relationship between this kind of guards and the so-called nimcha and Zanzibar swords deserves a deeper study, although I don't expect to find any direct link. But that's because I'm afraid I lack too much data... To start with, I would like to know when these guards first start to appear in the Maghrib and in Arabia, and if it is possible to clarify where they appeared first. My preliminary bets would go to them going from Arabia to the Maghrib, and not the other way around, just for a question of raw power of influence. Besides, I've seen at least one exemplar of "Zanzibar", with stems (in Spanish they are called pitones) in the hilt and a short(ish), wide, cutting blade, with traces of etched designs and inscriptions in Arabic, but with a koftgariand enamel decoration typical of North African late exemplars. What it means, is hard to say without knowing where it came from and an approximate date for it, but at least it bears witness of a cross-influence. Too many questions and far too little data for anything but preliminary hypothesis, for now, at least in my case... gotta get a hold of that article relating these swords with Genoa, I've heard this argument a lot of times and would really love to see the data that led to that conclusion, it would probably dispel some of my doubts. Funny, this is one of the many questions that I have permanently in the back of my mind, probably because I like this type of swords so much...

How are the secondary arms of the guard called in English? I can't recall right now... in Spanish they are called patillas, "little legs" (and also "sideburns", funnily enough).

Fernando, thank you very much for your offer. The photocopies I have are from what I think is a small catalogue of the Daehnhardt's collection, or at least a part of it. I got them in the fly, a long time ago, without being really able to ask for details (one of these "take it or leave it" things, but I just couldn't let pass the chance of having at least a small glimpse into one of the most important arms collections in the Iberian Peninsula). I don't know if such a catalogue really exists and is still available somewhere...
Congratulations on your purchase by the way
And about being the sword in the auction... well, arms collecting and studying is a small world, after all. Spend some time in it, and you start to find the same names again and again and again...

There's some more swords of this design in Spain and elsewhere in Europe, at least the Spanish variation, some in Museums, some in private hands. One of them is indeed the beautiful exemplar in the Instituto Valencia de Don Juan in Madrid:


Salaams Marc, In respect of your fine details and about the Zanzibari odd example ... Perhaps this has been clarified already however, your description clearly seems to be of a Moroccan Nimcha not Zanzibari underscored by the pitones and koftgari not seen on Zanzibar Nimchas. What shape is the Knuckleguard and is there a simple rounded stud or a turtle shape on the pommel top? . Is there a picture we can view of this example ?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 3rd August 2017, 03:59 PM   #22
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Ibrahiim, you are bringing back a post submitted by Marc ten years ago. Perhaps his answer will take some time come in. It has been now about four years that he doesn't visit us. Last time i contacted him he said he was overloaded with work at his job and so couldn't attend to forum business... which is a pitty, by the way .
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Old 4th August 2017, 01:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Ibrahiim, you are bringing back a post submitted by Marc ten years ago. Perhaps his answer will take some time come in. It has been now about four years that he doesn't visit us. Last time i contacted him he said he was overloaded with work at his job and so couldn't attend to forum business... which is a pitty, by the way .



Ah such a pity ... and was why I asked...Perhaps this has been clarified already?... seeing that there was a huge time lapse. His description is certainly of the Moroccan form..He wrote ;

Quote" Besides, I've seen at least one exemplar of "Zanzibar", with stems (in Spanish they are called pitones) in the hilt and a short(ish), wide, cutting blade, with traces of etched designs and inscriptions in Arabic, but with a koftgari and enamel decoration typical of North African late exemplars."Unquote.

In another thread I have just considered the difference in Knuckleguards on these two styles concluding at

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21833


both the reason for the variance and the conclusion placing the Moroccan position as clearly the instigator of the basic design of the hilt.
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Old 6th August 2017, 02:52 PM   #24
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Here an interesting Portuguese ,or in the least, an Iberian Sword:
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Old 6th August 2017, 03:22 PM   #25
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Spanish Colonial, just like one had in my collection. Sorry but, nothing to do with typical Swords a la Portuguese... or a la Iberian .


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Old 6th August 2017, 05:11 PM   #26
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Quite a late invention almost a revival sword...but with vestiges of the Jinete and accents from the Nimcha and with long live Spain on the blade. It seemed a pity not to include.
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Old 6th August 2017, 05:25 PM   #27
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This is a Portuguese sword though lightly disguised as something else;
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Old 10th August 2017, 01:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Quite a late invention almost a revival sword...but with vestiges of the Jinete and accents from the Nimcha and with long live Spain on the blade. It seemed a pity not to include.

I guess the whole engraving has the misspelt inscription " VIVA EL REY DE ESPANNA" but, Zenete and Nimcha accents are hardly there ... and still i don't see this sword connected with swords a la Portuguese; far too long a shot ... perhaps a case for binoculars .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
This is a Portuguese sword though lightly disguised as something else;

If i recall, there never was any evidence that this sword is Portuguese .
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Old 5th September 2017, 04:48 PM   #29
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More on the Colonial sword (Mbele a Lulendo) being continued HERE
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Old 19th September 2017, 01:10 AM   #30
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We discussed on this subject at a Spanish site in 2012 (in Spanish sorry).

http://www.esgrimaantigua.com/forum...ilit=portuguesa

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