Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 3rd December 2019, 04:25 AM   #61
Cthulhu
Member
 
Cthulhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Valley, California
Posts: 42
Default

Wow, nice pieces, all.

Jens, I must admit I can't find anything that's definitively a peacock on your pata. I can imagine them all over, but anything that might be a peacock I could imagine to be just about anything else as well.

And, sadly nothing in my collection has good carved steel decoration. The closest I come is some wrenched panels on hafts. But I'm really enjoying seeing all of your lovely carved steel weapons.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd December 2019, 01:22 PM   #62
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,703
Default

This might help you to find the peacocks.
Attached Images
 
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2019, 02:34 AM   #63
Cthulhu
Member
 
Cthulhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Valley, California
Posts: 42
Default Carved steel zaghnal

I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.

And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off.
Attached Images
 
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2019, 03:01 AM   #64
Kubur
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
And thanks for the explanation of the peacocks, Jens. I see real peacocks a few times a week so that's probably what was throwing me off.


The peacocks
nice to see
horrible to hear
like my ex-wife
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th December 2019, 08:35 PM   #65
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,703
Default

Well, when you have to do with old weapons, you will have to study how the different forms, like animals, were shown at the time - but it seems as if none of you did so, what a pity. However, I am glad that you now see it, and hopefully have learned from this exercise:-).
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2020, 02:42 PM   #66
psingh123
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
It s seldom writers comment on the decoration of the Indian weapons, but Hermann Goetz did in his book The Art and Architecture of Bikaner State, p. 125, 1950.
Cut steel decoration was far more popular than most think, and lasted quite long, before inlay and koftgari took over. Here is a quote from Goetz' book.
The katar shown is an example of cut steel decoration. In this case the katar is 17th century, but with a Bikaner dot inscription.
Surat Singhji (r. 1787-1828). Ji is a honorific suffix.


interesting!
psingh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2020, 02:32 AM   #67
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK: p.s. - Real Dogs Have Feathering.
Posts: 3,288
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
I found one item in my collection that has some figural carving, so here's a photo. The carving is fairly crude and heavily worn, so not exactly a beauty piece.
...


My zaghnol on a very similar motif: As sold, cleaned up a bit after tho.
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2020, 07:09 PM   #68
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,983
Default

My Aradam ( blade serrated on both edges, if on one edge only, it is an Arapusta)
Mechanical damascus. I would date it to 18 century, but would like to hear opinions
Attached Images
   
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th April 2020, 07:19 PM   #69
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,983
Default

And here is my Khyber ( Selavah). A relatively small one, with blade 15 1/4"
Very careful, complex and deep chiseling with subsequent gilding on both sides. As per Jens' assessment, it is of Indian manufacture ( at least the decoration) and of high quality . He cautiously dated it to 18 century, perhaps earlier.
I would be grateful to him for a yet another look and a master class in dating/ attribution. Of course , everybody else is invited.
Attached Images
     
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2020, 04:27 AM   #70
Cthulhu
Member
 
Cthulhu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Central Valley, California
Posts: 42
Default

Nice, kronckew. Looks like a thick and useful blade, unlike my zaghnal which is surprisingly delicate.
I have another zaghnal which is rather similarly made, but doesn't qualify for this cut steel decoration thread, being brass.

That's an amazingly intricate khyber knife, ariel. I wouldn't hazard a guess at dates for either of your pieces; I have more enthusiasm than knowledge where these things are concerned.

Really interesting on the tulwar how the serrations aren't present on the belly of the blade; I wonder if that was a practical or aesthetic decision? Not that I expect that's knowable.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2020, 01:07 PM   #71
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 4,983
Default

My personal guess, not supported by any factual knowledge is that the working segment of the Aradam blade was left not serrated for practical purposes, to optimize its slashing ability. The rest was for show, to unnerve the opponent. Serrated blades are great for cutting but require a lot of to-and-fro movements. Their wounds leave a lot of tissue fragment without good blood supply and as such easily susceptible for necrosis and late infection. But that requires days, and at the battlefield you want to finish your opponent right then and there, with a single blow.
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:03 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.