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Old 2nd May 2011, 05:40 AM   #1
Nathaniel
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Default Sword of the Prophet Mohammed

A friend showed me this today...he said it is a sword of the prophet Mohammed...and that it's kept in Turkey.

I'm sure this may have come up before...

In a search I came up with these few links:

http://www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwh...ords_index.html
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Last edited by Lew : 2nd May 2011 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:39 AM   #2
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Hi Nathaniel,

There was a discussion a few years back here that touched on this subject:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=42964

Last edited by Atlantia : 2nd May 2011 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 10:08 AM   #3
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The second website contains slanders and mockery of Islam. I hope moderators will delete the link. Thanks.

Last edited by rasdan : 2nd May 2011 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 10:43 AM   #4
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About the link: Thank you Lew.

How can we be sure that these are indeed the Prophet's sword?
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Old 2nd May 2011, 12:49 PM   #5
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I appologize as I did not read closely enough that partucular link, but quick scanned it and saw that it listed the nine swords and description of each. The link was wiki Islam so I thought it was legit...as always it is a challenge with source reliability on the internet and I should have read though more carefully. Lesson learned.

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Old 2nd May 2011, 01:46 PM   #6
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Here is a proper site that shows picture, name and description

http://ibnulazim.wordpress.com/2008...f-muhammad-saw/
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Old 2nd May 2011, 01:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasdan
About the link: Thank you Lew.

How can we be sure that these are indeed the Prophet's sword?


Rasdan,

I do not know...this was something my Saudi Arabian friend showed me and I thought this might be of interest for those who study swords in this area. I know little about the weapons of this region.

Last edited by Nathaniel : 2nd May 2011 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 03:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasdan
About the link: Thank you Lew.

How can we be sure that these are indeed the Prophet's sword?


Rasdan

There is no real way to verify that these swords belong to the Prophet? Some of them do look to be the proper style for that specific period others on the other hand do seem of a later period style but I am not an expert.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 04:14 PM   #9
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Nathaniel, Thanks for the info.

Lew, I actually have no knowledge whatsoever on the shape or anything about these swords. Maybe, I didn't look enough, but I didn't found any information on these swords as how they made it to the museum etc.

With so many funny informations and "facts" around, I don't know if these swords can be positively, undeniably verified to be the prophet's sword. But, again, I didn't take much effort researching.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 04:19 PM   #10
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Agree with Lew, there is no way to verify. As with any other antique attribution, the historical accounts often serve as "provenance". From "The Topkapi Palace" book: "according to historians, the Prophet had nine swords. He gave one he called Zulfikar to the Caliph Ali. Another sword was left to him by his father. Only two of his swords are in Topkapi Palace...They displayed along with the mantle in the Throne room. Another weapon belonging to the Prophet is a bow, is also on display".
The sword shown on the first top picture is the sword of the Caliph Ali, and bears "Zulfikar" inscription: "No better hero than Ali, no better sword than Zulfikar". However, this sword has one point, not split like Zulfikar, so there is no evidence it belonged to the Prophet.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew
Rasdan

There is no real way to verify that these swords belong to the Prophet? Some of them do look to be the proper style for that specific period others on the other hand do seem of a later period style but I am not an expert.


Lew,

Thank you for removing the bad link. That is what I was curious to hear if the different swords where consistent with the style of the time period. Which particular swords are are consistent with the time period?
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:58 PM   #12
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I would say the straight wide bladed ones. The thinner curved ones are probably of a later period. The one that allegedly belonged to King David is questionable a sword of that length would have been almost impossible to forge since the battle between David and Goliath took place at the begining of the Iron age in the mid east and the smiths would not have had the technology to manufacture such a long blade. Infact the weapons were more likely made of bronze since this time period was on the cusp between the late Bronze age and early Iron age.

Last edited by Lew : 2nd May 2011 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:16 AM   #13
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at my first visit to Topkapi,
I was a little embarrassed to see artifacts with some questionable attributions for instance
- the wooden soup pot of Abraham
- the magic stick of Moses, with what he opened the Red Sea water's

from that, my doubt about all attributions in general was done,
I came to paid a look for the objects, but ignored the comments

since, at my last visit, I saw that the most critical objects have been withdraw,
but first impression still yet valid

when you want to prove too much, you do not prove anything

any way, the edged weapons exhibited at Topkapi are very attractive
their origins at my point of view are very questionable,
because based on religious faith, and not on historical analyses

à +

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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:20 AM   #14
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I thought I would post the nine swords so incase the link posted was lost (cite: http://ibnulazim.wordpress.com/2008...f-muhammad-saw/ )


al-Ma’thur

al-Ma’thur, also known as “Ma’thur al-Fijar” is the sword which was owned by the prophet Muhammad before he received his first revelations in Mecca. It was willed to him by his father. The prophet Muhammad migrated with the sword from Mecca to Medina, and the sword remained with him until it was transferred, along with other war equipment, to Ali b. Abi Talib.

The blade is 99 cm in length. The handle is of gold in the shape of two serpents, and is encrusted with emeralds and turquoise. Near the handle is a Kufic inscription saying: ‘Abdallah b. ‘Abd al-Muttalib. Today the sword is housed in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:23 AM   #15
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al-Battar

The al-Battar sword was taken by the prophet Muhammad as booty from the Banu Qaynaqa. It is called the “sword of the prophets” and is inscribed in Arabic with the names of David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Zechariah, John, Jesus, and Muhammad. It also has a drawing of King David when cut off the head of Goliath to whom this sword had belonged originally. The sword also features an inscription which has been identified as Nabataean writing.

The blade of the sword is 101 cm in length. It is preserved in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Some report that it is this sword that Jesus will use when he returns to Earth to defeat the anti-Christ Dajjal. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:24 AM   #16
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Dhu al-Faqar

Dhu al-Faqar is the name of this sword, taken as booty by the prophet Muhammad at the Battle of Badr. It is reported that the prophet Muhammad gave the sword to Ali b. Abi Talib, and that Ali returned from the Battle of Uhud covered with blood from his hands to his shoulders, having Dhu al-Faqar with him. Many sources report that this sword remained with Ali b. Abi Talib and his family, and that the sword had two points, perhaps represented here by the two lines ingraved on the blade.

Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:25 AM   #17
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Hatf

Hatf is a sword which the prophet Muhammad took as booty from the Banu Qaynaqa. It is said that King David took his sword “al-Battar” from Goliath as booty when he defeated him, but he was less than 20 years old. God gave King David the ability to work with iron, to make armor and weapons and instruments of war, and he made for himself a sword. It was thus that the Hatf sword came about, resembling the al-Battar but larger than it. He used this sword and it was passed onto the tribe of Levites who kept the weapons of the Israelites until it passed into the hands of the prophet Muhammad.

Today this sword is housed in the Topkapi museum. The blade is 112 cm in length and has a width of 8 cm. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:27 AM   #18
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al-Mikhdham

The sword called is reported to have passed from the prophet Muhammad to Ali b. Abi Talib, and from him to his sons. Some report that the sword was taken as booty by Ali b. Abi Talib from a raid he led in Syria.

The sword is now in the Topkpoki Museum, Istanbul. The blade is 97 cm in length and is inscribed with the name of Zayn al-Din al-Abidin. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992)
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:30 AM   #19
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al-Rasub

The al-Rasub sword is one of the nine swords of the prophet Muhammad. It is said that the weapons of the house of the prophet Muhammad were kept among his family just like the Ark was kept with the Israelites.

The sword is preserved in the Topkapi museum, Istanbul. Its blade is 140 cm in length. It has gold circles on which are inscribed the name of Ja’far al-Sadiq. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:32 AM   #20
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al-’Adb

al-’Adb, the name of this sword, means “cutting” or “sharp.” This sword was sent to the prophet Muhammad by one of his companions just before the Battle of Badr. He used this sword at the Battle of Uhud and his followers used it to demonstrate their fealty to him.

The sword today is in the Husain mosque in Cairo, Egypt. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:33 AM   #21
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al-Qadib

al-Qadib is a thin-bladed sword which, it was said, resembled a rod. It was a sword of defense or companionship for the traveller but not used to battle. Written on the side of the sword in silver is the inscription: “There is no god but God, Muhammad the apostle of God–Muhammad b. Abdallah b. Abd al-Muttalib.” There is no indication in any historical source that this sword was used or in any battle. It stayed in the house of the prophet Muhammad and was only used later by the Fatimid caliphs.

The sword is 100 cm in length and has a scabbard of dyed animal hide. Today the sword is housed in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:34 AM   #22
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Qal’i

This sword is known as “Qal’i” or “Qul’ay.” The name may be related to a place in Syria or a place in India near China. Other scholars state that the adjective “qal’i” refers to “tin” or “white lead” which was mined in different locations. This sword is one of the three swords which the prophet Muhammad acquired as booty from the Banu Qaynaqa. It is also reported that the grandfather of the prophet Muhammad discovered “swords of Qal’i” when he uncovered the Well of Zamzam in Mecca.

Today the sword is preserved in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Its blade is 100 cm in length. Inscribed in Arabic on its blade above the handle is: “This is the noble sword of the house of Muhammad the prophet, the apostle of God.” The blade of this sword is distinguished from the other swords because of its wave-like design. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).
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Old 3rd May 2011, 12:37 AM   #23
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Bows of Prophet SAW

The only surviving bow of the Prophet Muhammad, is kept in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, along with many other holy relics. It is made from bamboo, and dates from around 615 A.D. It is said to have passed into the Caliphal treasury by the hand of Qatadah ibn al-Nu’man. The case was commissioned by the Ottoman Sultan Shah Ahmed I, (ruled 1603-1617) and is inscribed with poetic couplets in praise of the bow, in Ottoman Turkish
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Old 3rd May 2011, 01:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
at my first visit to Topkapi,
I was a little embarrassed to see artifacts with some questionable attributions for instance
- the wooden soup pot of Abraham
- the magic stick of Moses, with what he opened the Red Sea water's

from that, my doubt about all attributions in general was done,
I came to paid a look for the objects, but ignored the comments

since, at my last visit, I saw that the most critical objects have been withdraw,
but first impression still yet valid

when you want to prove too much, you do not prove anything

any way, the edged weapons exhibited at Topkapi are very attractive
their origins at my point of view are very questionable,
because based on religious faith, and not on historical analyses

à +

Dom


Dom,

Thank you for sharing your person experience. It is fantastic to hear from someone who has actually viewed these items.

Irregardless whether fact or fabrication this is not something uncommon to many religions, institutions, regimes, etc.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 01:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew
I would say the straight wide bladed ones. The thinner curved ones are probably of a later period. The one that allegedly belonged to King David is questionable a sword of that length would have been almost impossible to forge since the battle between David and Goliath took place at the begining of the Iron age in the mid east and the smiths would not have had the technology to manufacture such a long blade. Infact the weapons were more likely made of bronze since this time period was on the cusp between the late Bronze age and early Iron age.


Lew,

Thanks for the information. Logical as most societies started with straight wider blades and as metallurgic technology evolved, increased length and curve developed.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 07:37 AM   #26
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I have to agree with Dom.

I also visited the Topkapi palace and enjoyed the exposition and the wonderfull weapons. But those who put up the exposition had a great imagination in my opinion.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 07:49 AM   #27
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Hullo everybody,

My only guide: I would have doubts about any sword/weapon, were it to be decorated with gold etc., as being attributable to the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.

Best,
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Old 3rd May 2011, 09:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henk
I have to agree with Dom.

I also visited the Topkapi palace and enjoyed the exposition and the wonderfull weapons. But those who put up the exposition had a great imagination in my opinion.


Very true. I recently visited Istanbul Military Museum and saw many examples of this, such as shamshir with a common "Velayet Shah Abbas/Amel AssadUllah" cartouche, described as "personal sword of Shah Abbas himself". What's more, there is a small collection of Yemeni jambiyas, all identified as Ottoman weapons. Naturally, the purpose of most museums is to impress the tourists:-)
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Old 3rd May 2011, 11:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEX
I recently visited Istanbul Military Museum
Hi Alex
very well, you'll be the right man, for the right purpose, to confirm from where I took those pics ! .. Istanbul Military Museum or Topkapi, I dunno any more

enjoy

à +

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Old 3rd May 2011, 01:56 PM   #30
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Those 3 gigantic european blades... Are they fake? They make those shamshirs look like toothpicks!
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